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I have a single pole, single throw switch which controls a ceiling light, no pull chain (light A) and (unnecessarily) a wall light, with pull chain (light B). When the switch is in the OFF position, light A is off and light B can be turned on with its pull chain. When the switch is in the ON position, light A is on and light B is off, regardless of the state of its pull chain.

Is this most likely to be caused by a short? Or is there a proper wiring configuration that could result in this behavior? I am alone and can’t isolate the circuit to pull out the switch, but that will be my next step (I can see a few wire nuts are in its box so it is possible there is misconfiguration there)

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  • Does Light A turn on somewhat when Light B is turned on with its pullchain? Commented Sep 26, 2020 at 18:07
  • @ThreePhaseEel yes actually, and sometimes having light B on will cause both light B and light A to flicker, although the switch is in the OFF position
    – Ivan G.
    Commented Sep 26, 2020 at 18:15
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    are you certain about the switch? ... that behavior can easily be achieved with a SPDT switch
    – jsotola
    Commented Sep 26, 2020 at 18:15
  • @jsotola yeah, the switch has only two terminals, plus a green ground terminal (not connected)
    – Ivan G.
    Commented Sep 26, 2020 at 18:38

1 Answer 1

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Someone tried to tap light B off at the switch-end of an old-school switch loop

The behavior you're describing is symptomatic of a relatively common wiring error where someone looks in a switch box, sees that there is a black and a white wire in it, doesn't pay attention to the fact that both wires go to the switch, and connects a second light across the switch at that point, assuming the white wire in the switch box is a neutral. However, in an old-style (pre-2011 NEC) switch loop, it's not a neutral; instead, one of the wires carries power to the switch, while the other wire carries the switched-hot back up to the light, with neutral nowhere to be found in this picture. (It terminated at light A in your situation.)

So, you'll have to either abandon the old feed for light B and feed it from somewhere that has always-hot and neutral (such as light A's box), or replace the run from the switch to light A with a /3 cable to bring neutral to the switch for use by light B. (The latter also has the nice side effect that it brings the switch wiring up to the "new style" standard set by NEC 2011, where switch loops are required to bring neutral with them for use by dimmers, timers, sensors, remote-control switches, and other such "smart" gizmos.)

Why does it behave that way, though?

If you're wondering why this error yields the symptoms you're seeing, simply draw the resulting circuit out:

  • Hot goes to the junction of one side of the switch and the "hot" side of light B (which has a switch built in)
  • The other side of the switch is joined with the "neutral" side of light B and the "hot" side of light A
  • And the "neutral" side of light A is connected to neutral

As it turns out, the two lights form a series circuit, which explains the curious behaviors you see. In particular, with the switch off, any attempt to turn light B on puts light A and light B in series, which will mean that the bulb with less resistance lights up more; with fancy LED bulbs, you get either dim glows or flickering from both bulbs, as you have observed. Once you turn the switch on, you short out light B, which explains why light B can't turn on any longer -- the lion's share of the current is taking the express route to light A via the closed switch, instead of the congested road through light B (and its switch).

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  • Great explanation. I’ll investigate and accept this answer if this is the case. Assuming this were the case, does this pose any risk of damage (i.e should I be in a hurry to get it fixed, or just disconnect light B?)
    – Ivan G.
    Commented Sep 26, 2020 at 23:44
  • @IvanG. -- disconnecting light B is a good idea as this sort of mis-setup is likely to be somewhat hard on LED/CFL bulbs; as to getting it fixed permanently, it depends on how important light B is :) Commented Sep 27, 2020 at 0:27
  • I still haven't looked into this but getting back around to it. One question: you mention needing to use /3 cable from light A to the switch in order to bring neutral to the switch. Why couldn't I use /2 cable? Do I also need to bring always-hot to the light? If not, I believe I could use /2 cable with black carrying the switched hot to light A and white carrying neutral from light A to the switch
    – Ivan G.
    Commented Dec 1, 2020 at 17:04
  • @IvanG. -- the problem with your thinking is that always-hot enters the situation at light A, but needs to get down to the switch somehow Commented Dec 1, 2020 at 21:59
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    @IvanG. -- look up a picture for a "switch loop", that might help you visualize what's most likely going on here Commented Dec 1, 2020 at 23:08

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