0

I replaced one leg of 3-way switches pair because I thought it was broken (only 1 switch turns on the light; the other one doesn't ==> this other one is the one I replaced). And now, both 3-way switches must be in ON position in order to turn on the light.

I tried swapping the black wires on the NEW switch, and this made me unable to turn on the light at all. So I swapped the black wires back to the original position (meaning: this position is correct, ie. I'm sure which one is common and which one is the traveler).

So does it mean the OTHER (unchanged) switch is bad? Or the wiring on that switch is wrong? (If it's wrong, how come it worked before?)

--EDIT/CONCLUSION--

So after unplugging all wires from switches to test continuity, I re-plug those wires.

Before: the wires were using push-in to the switches Now: I use j-hook to the terminal screws

And believe it or not: it now works!!!

I'm still trying to understand why... seems like the push-in connection is unreliable and somehow can "break" when flipping the breaker...?...

Anyway. I'll close this question and give the point the only answer so far.

Thanks, and sorry for taking everyone's precious time (blame it to the push-in)

12
  • 2
    One switch is wired backward. See past answers about 3-ways, some of which explain this to exact situation.
    – keshlam
    Commented Sep 20 at 18:21
  • 1
    Did the three-way switches ever work correctly? Commented Sep 20 at 18:22
  • 1
    then see @keshlam's comment :) Commented Sep 20 at 18:24
  • 2
    "yes it worked before I replaced it." This must beg the question of; Why did you replace it, and what would make you think the other switch is now "bad" ?
    – RMDman
    Commented Sep 20 at 18:56
  • 1
    Sounds like you're the poster child for "backstabs" suck.
    – Huesmann
    Commented Sep 21 at 13:48

2 Answers 2

4

Figuring This Out

First of all, there is no ON position on a 3-way switch. Take a look and you will see that a regular (not 3-way) toggle switch (obviously not with Decora style) has markings, typically molded into the toggle part itself, for ON and OFF. But a 3-way switch has no such markings. So if one of the switches actually has an ON marking then that's the problem - it isn't a 3-way switch!

Assuming that these are 3-way switches and by "ON position" you mean UP, there are two ways to figure this out. One is by creating some truth tables based on what does and doesn't work and some extra trouble-shooting besides. The other way is to:

  • Remove each switch from all 3 wires (4 wires if it has a ground wire).
  • Use a multimeter to check continuity between each pair of screws with the switch UP and the switch DOWN.

On a functioning 3-way switch, there will be one screw that will alternate which other screw it connects to for UP vs. DOWN. Normally the two screws that alternate will be the same color and a different color (e.g., brass vs. silver or black) than the third (common) screw.

If both switches pass this test then you have a bad traveler wire somewhere - e.g., perhaps a bad junction somewhere between the switches. If one switch passes the test and the other one doesn't then you've found the problem - replace the bad switch.


A Note About Wire Colors

Wire colors have little meaning in the US system for residential wiring, except:

  • Neutral is always white (well, sometimes gray) but white is NOT always neutral
  • Green or bare is always ground
  • Black, red, blue, yellow, etc. are always NOT neutral or ground

When you have wires in cables, which is common in most of the US/Canada, the cables are mostly:

  • Black/White/bare
  • Black/Red/White/bare

Since bare is always ground and neutral can only be white, there aren't many options. Except that since, until recently, switches have not required neutral (dumb switches still don't actually use neutral, but in new installations neutral must be available, which means if you are using cables then white becomes *ONLY neutral except in some very limited circumstances (primarily 240V circuits)).

For a typical 3-way circuit, each switch will connect either to a single black/red/white cable or to *two cables, one of them black/red/white and the other black/white. Since OP referenced two black wires, that means that particular switch must be connecting to two different cables. Which means one of the blacks is a black from a black/red/white cable and is one of the travelers and the other is the black from a black/white cable and is a common wire (either hot or switched hot). Which means that some of the possible problems can be figured out by:

  • Checking which black wire is in a black/red/white cable (traveler) and which is in a black/white cable (common).
  • Put the black traveler wire on the same color screw as the other traveler (red or white of the same cable).
  • Put the black common wire on the other color screw.

Screw colors are pretty much always black, silver or brass, plus sometimes green for ground. The ground screw is usually easy to identify anyway because it is normally on one of the corners.

3
  • I tested the continuity on the switches, and all are checked. So how can I test to make sure the traveler wire is bad? And any suggestion how to fix? (I'm still wondering how come turning the breaker can lead to this issue...) Commented Sep 20 at 20:00
  • Question edited with the final situation/conclusion.' Commented Sep 20 at 21:24
  • 2
    Don't edit the answer into the question. Post it as an Answer. That lets others up-vote it to give you points, and lets you give it the check mark which also gives you points. And it makes the site easier to search should somebody need the same answer.
    – keshlam
    Commented Sep 21 at 0:29
0

seems like the push-in connection is unreliable

Yes, they are unreliable, and I and others always recommend against using them.

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service and acknowledge you have read our privacy policy.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.