New answers tagged electrical-panel
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I agree with DAS's and MikeM's posts about the distance from high voltage lines, and it would be a painful way to find out it wasn't a good idea after you go through the work of installing the equipment.
Nobody here telling you it's a good idea has to drive to your house to help you move the low voltage panel to a better location.
Best wishes!
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Another consideration is your mention of Power over Ethernet, coded under 802.3af
Switches for POE tend to have higher power requirements than the same switch in a non-POE format, and are even less happy about being closed into a box than regular switches.
Personally I installed a floor mounted server rack in the garage, but they're not small. If you don't ...
4
The number of NM cables you need won't fit in a sanely sized pipe... and UF cable makes the situation much worse because it is even wider and flatter than NM. (unfortunately this is outdoors, and "liquidtight" conduit isn't). When going through conduit, cable counts same as a round wire of the large dimension. You're not allowed to piece the ...
answered 15 hours ago
Harper - Reinstate Monica
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1
In addition to the above, you want to keep each of your low voltage wires at least 12 inches away from powered wires and putting the structured media box next to your electrical panel will just cause major interference and reduce the quality of transmission.
Instead of cat6 quality, you might get a slumbering cat... (Weak wire humor attempted).
Also you may ...
3
You run individual THHN wires in conduit, not NM or UF cables
The first mistake most DIYers make when they first approach conduit is trying to stuff NM or UF down it. Instead, what you're supposed to use in conduit is individual wires of a type called THHN. These are usually stranded, making them much more flexible than NM or UF cable, and also take up ...
14
Wire access space. When you plant something near the breaker box, you can't then enter the breaker box from the area blocked by that something.
You are going to be blocking off (what sounds like) a whole side of your breaker box from access. That can come back to bite when you need to add something later, and really wish that the other box was in the next ...
3
This isn't a full Answer, but it's not a comment either.
If the cable modem is your WAP, then the box could reduce your signal to nearly, or actually, nothing. Also, putting a modem in an enclosure is generally a bad thing.
A former landlord of mine kept theirs in a cabinet, like for plates and cups, and it routinely got too hot and fried itself. Not only ...
2
Completely agreed with Harper's answer -- you must enclose this whole thing in boxes and conduits. The box can be one of your existing panels, or a new one if that's more convenient -- doesn't matter.
However, to address your comments about the difficulty of stuffing those right angle connectors down conduit, I'd recommend a slightly different approach: ...
3
The machine and all wiring MUST be inside a Class I wiring methods!
That machine must be inside a NEMA enclosure listed for housing AC mains equipment. Every part of the system must be inside Class I wiring methods. You cannot have loosy-goosy wires "merely because you can't figure a better way to install it". No "science projects" ...
3
You're going to need to unmount this box and move it forward slightly, because there's no other way out of this situation
The root cause of your issues is that the drywall was inserted as an (improper) "shim" to work around the fact that your breaker panel was mounted too deeply into the wall. You see, not only does the current situation violate ...
-2
I have read through some of these comments and I have to laugh. Do you realize that with this advice that some of you give could have you in legal jeopardy.
This was an open/loose neutral condition. On POCO's end to boot. An open neutral is just as deadly if not more than plugging a radio in and setting on the bath tub while you bathe.
There is only one way ...
2
Holy smoke, you can't do that!!!
No! The problem is the panel cover needs to be at a certain height from the breakers to prevent this from happening every time you flip a breaker to "off".
Whoever did that with the cover needs to stop doing electrical.
All the drywall needs to be cut back, so that the panel deadfront can bolt up flush as intended.
...
answered Jan 24 at 19:39
Harper - Reinstate Monica
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2
The main breaker doesn't state the current of the busways.
Last year we had a run on questions about 20-space panels with 100A main breakers. The people wanted to add 25-40A of solar, and were getting different answers from solar installers. (With solar, you add main breaker + solar breaker... that can't exceed 120% of bus capacity.) It turned out their ...
answered Jan 22 at 18:51
Harper - Reinstate Monica
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7
The panel may look identical to you but the thickness of the buss and the material makes a big difference where a inch of copper can handle 1000 amps per square inch verses aluminum of only 700 amps (NEC 366.23) so the buss material makes a difference it may look the same even be the same thickness but one being solid copper and one being aluminum with a ...
2
Turning things off will not stop the power usage on many electronic devices, tv’s microwaves or anything with a touch pad to turn it on consumes power to keep the electronics alive watching for a button push.
Even power supplies to computers and cell phone chargers when not plugged in consume a small amount of power. How can you tell if your “wall wart” plug ...
6
There's a concept called grandfathering which says If the work was legal on the day it was installed, then when Code changes later, it's still legal. You're not required to tear out a bunch of wiring every 3 years when Code is revised.
This gets into a lot of lawyering about when the work was done and what was legal then. However we can safely pass ...
answered Jan 20 at 9:04
Harper - Reinstate Monica
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2
There are multiple problems here. Assuming the work met code when done, they may not be active problems, but certainly not to current codes.
Item the first - Apartments, plural - fine if landlord is paying electric bill, not fine otherwise. If tenants pay for electricity, you need a separate metered service for each tenant plus a separate metered service ...
1
OK, first, fix your working space. That fan, vamonos. The 30" space, as illustrated, doesn't need to be centered on the panel.
What you have there is a flush-mount panel, which is the bane of anyone who's ever tried to add a circuit. Lately it's been the fashion to destroy all "utility spaces" in the home. Utilities are important. ...
answered Jan 19 at 22:12
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1
The required working space around the panel is 6-6" (6-1/2 feet) high, so you can't infringe on that from above. 30 inches wide (need not be centered, but doors need to be able to open fully) and 3 feet in front.
0
I believe most TV mounts have a minimum depth for their lag bolts.
From Rocketfish™ - Tilting TV Wall Mount for Most 32"-70" TVs
Drill pilot holes to a depth of 3 in. (75 mm) using a 7/32 in. (5.5 mm) diameter drill bit.
I really hope you don't hit any wires with the pilot hole nor the 2 3/4" lag bolts they supply.
2
Code isn't really relevant unless you were to block access to the panel (within 3 feet in front). Just don't hit any wires. Use screws that penetrate no more than about 1-1/4" into the lumber. All wires should be deeper than that.
To respond to the hand-wringing about mount integrity...
A 5/16" screw (properly piloted) into framing an inch will ...
6
Clamps/fittings need to be NRTL (UL/ETL) Listed, and the instructions on or with the fittings are part of the Listing, and will indicate the number and type of cables allowed.
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You can, but you need a 3/4" KO and the correct clamp to do so
If you're working with a 3/4" or larger knockout, you can get 3 12/2 or 12/3 NM cables into it. You just need a cable clamp that's listed/rated for that many cables; fortunately, the Arlington NM842 is cheap and fits the bill perfectly here. It can even accept 4 12/2, or 2 12/3 and 1 ...
8
You need to de-energize the wiring
I realize you're very cocksure, but...
Really, really, you need to de-energize the wiring using the normal methods for doing that in your country.
Absolutely no one on this forum is going to counsel you to do that work "live", even with the much more docile American 120V-to-ground (2 or 3 phases).
Here are the ...
answered Jan 19 at 0:10
Harper - Reinstate Monica
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3
Like Ecnerwal says, you lost a phase. 99% of the time this is the power company's problem, and they come out and fix it for free. Simply report an outage.
But why aren't half my circuits dead?
Because the two phases are shorted together.
OK it's not a dead-short, it's a low-resistance short. If the power were working normally, this thing would be making ...
answered Jan 18 at 23:53
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4
You're asking about the Dielectric strength of air. Among other things, it depends on the shape of the electrodes (the bare wires) and contaminants in the air (humidity, dust, etc). We can't give a precise answer - but at 400V the distance is quite small. If you can see a gap between the conductors then it's big enough that an arc won't form. Until an ...
1
If you have 0V between the hot lines feeding your panel, the problem is beyond your "place." The good news is that at that point, it should also not cost you anything to get it fixed - that should be the responsibility of the power company (if you are directly connected) or building management (if you are in a multi-residential occupancy where ...
3
The instructions are CSA-approved (or UL-approved; UL is now licensed to approve in Canada thanks to trade deals like NAFTA and GATT, thanks Bill Clinton). They are requirements and must be followed, unless you obtain an AHJ waiver.
The reason the UL-approved instructions require at least a 125A service is because a 100A service would not leave enough ...
answered Jan 18 at 20:39
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1
You'll need a pull box to make this splice
Since, from your measurements, it looks like your range circuit was wired using 4-4-4-6 Al SER with THHN conductors, you can't splice onto this cable in a regular old junction box, because it just wouldn't be big enough. Instead, you'll need to use a NEMA 1 (indoor) rated pull box; these are the bigger brothers of ...
3
A 125A "main breaker" in the subpanel is fine.
However, the breaker feeding this, which is in the main panel, must be 80A or 90A depending on the insulation of your wire.
Actually, I'd recommend a "larger" subpanel than 125A. The thing you really want is spaces, because a 90A subpanel can support a whole lot more circuits than you think ...
answered Jan 17 at 22:12
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1
Your breaker is too big for your wires
Your 2AWG Al wire is limited to 90A due to the fact that you're limited to 75°C ampacity by your terminations, at least with breakers and panels that are newer than the 1970s or so. Otherwise, you should be good to go, provided you haven't shorted yourself spaces in the subpanel that is! And yes, do make sure you ...
1
#2 aluminum is only rated for 75 amps below #1 the 60 degree table is used and even if the 90 degree table could be used (it can’t except for derating) that table tops out at 100 amps,
So you need to change the feeder breaker in the main panel but other than that what you have will meet code.
Make sure to use a anti oxide compound like noalox or deox on the ...
2
Your panel is Circuit Total Limiting, apparently, so you'll want a BQC220230
From the labeling on your panel having references to rejection-type bus stabs, we can tell that your panel is what's known as a Circuit Total Limiting (CTL) electrical panel. These were developed in the 70s to enforce the old NEC prohibition on having more than 42 circuits coming ...
2
Check to make sure your spa heater is configured correctly for 240V operation
The Balboa VS501Z uses a solid-state control board that is configurable for 120V or 240V operation; however, when in 120V mode, it requires a hardwire jumper from neutral to a L2 (red) connection on the board to configure it, as per the manual. If that jumper is present on a ...
0
As Ed Beal says, check if it's in conduit -- that'd be an easy way to add that fourth wire, which is the best solution.
However, in case it's not in conduit, I want to also answer your direct question of if there's a way to add safety to a grandfathered 3-wire feed without adding the fourth wire, because there is: make sure all your feeder connections are ...
3
When the building was built code was probably 3 wire ( this was the standard for decades). What you have was quite common until the1999 NEC code change.
A 200 amp feed would normally be in conduit and if metallic that could be used to meet today’s code.
If it is a direct buried feeder and you feel the need to update it a separate ground wire is now allowed, ...
0
Options are to enclose the panel as suggested by inspector
or
staple no more then 12" from panel.
If panel mounted to a backer board, 3/4 ply ? then can staple directly to that each wire separately
or a 1x board across top of panel secured to adjacent studs, the wire stapled to that
2
Lots and lots and lots of spaces.
Electricity works for us. It does our bidding. Running out of spaces is a huge, project-killing problem. And spaces are dirt cheap when you buy it (rather more expensive after the fact)... so we earnestly advise gross overkill on panel spaces.
So when you said "150A panel like this one" I thought "30 space ...
answered Jan 10 at 21:13
Harper - Reinstate Monica
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2
For the loads listed you may only need a 30A 240v panel, but a 60A breaker to feed the panel would certainly be advisable and would provide plenty of room for expansion.
3/4" Conduit would be large enough for 3@#6 copper wires using the conduit as ground, but would leave little ability to upgrade later. If you decide you use #4 aluminum you would need 1&...
2
Your main panel has several spaces open! Hurray! That means you have no problem adding a double-breaker for the subpanel. It also means that if you start adding more circuits inside the house then you are not in immediate panic mode. If you do start adding more circuits - e.g., a kitchen remodel - then you should consider a subpanel rather than going to ...
answered Jan 10 at 17:32
manassehkatz-Moving 2 Codidact
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2
Yes, your main panel has breaker space in it that can supply a 240 volt circuit to the sub-panel.
Clearly DO NOT go with a 150 amp circuit to your sub-panel. That is overkill and expensive. You'd have to get pretty large wires, which over that distance gets quite expensive.
Go larger on your sub-panel than you think you'll need, the cost difference is ...
5
The isolated bar is intended for Neutral.
If, like many generators, yours has ground and neutral bonded inside the generator, your generator neutral and all neutral wires go to the isolated bar, and the ground wires go to the one connected to the box.
That also sets you up properly for a "shore power" input.
Your hot feed either goes to one of the ...
3
In that pico-panel, you have a major defect. You have the breakers incorrectly swapped. You have a 40A breaker on the thin wire and a 20A breaker on the thick wire. The thin wire is totally unprotected. Swap those breakers!
You are correct. Without a neutral, that pico-panel cannot support any 120V loads end of subject.
You cannot use UF-B as extension ...
answered Jan 10 at 3:11
Harper - Reinstate Monica
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2
There are too many problems to go forward with your plan:
FYI Those pull out things are disconnects.
You can not use a 40 amp circuit for a 20 amp device.
Both of those circuits use the white wire for a hot so you have no neutral available
The UF would need to be buried not an extension cord
If you come up with a 120v circuit to feed that distance with #10 ...
0
See also
250.62 Grounding Electrode Conductor Material. The grounding electrode conductor shall be of copper, aluminum, copper-clad aluminum, or the items as permitted in 2S0.68(C). The material selected shall be resistant to any corrosive condition existing at the installation or shall be protected against corrosion. Conductors of the wire type shall be ...
answered Jan 6 at 2:28
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3
This isn't an issue because you're dealing with an EGC
As it turns out, while using a stranded wire would have pulled more easily, you are in the clear with regards to your solid 8AWG copper equipment grounding conductor Code-wise. This is because NEC 310.106(C) (i.e. where your NEC 310.3 cite moved to in newer NEC editions) yields to other parts of the ...
7
Since you have QO...there's a third way :)
If you find filler plates too flimsy/awkward, and putting a regular breaker there too error-prone, Square-D has you covered too! Simply get a QO1DB dummy breaker (or three) and use it in place of the filler plate. (These clip to the busbar just like a regular QO, but can be identified by their utter lack of a ...
3
To add to what Ed has said...
Installing an accessory ground bar and landing it there is not an option because neutral is not ground.
I understand why you think that... but consider what you are looking at.
Here's the thing. Grounds never carry current except during fault conditions, which are supposed to be momentary. Neutrals carry service current ...
answered Jan 5 at 17:17
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That's a common complaint. Every maker's filler plates are a) flimsy, b) expensive, and c) hard to find.
Fortunately, Square D also sells a much more robust filler plate which solves all these problems, called the QO120.
They're sold everywhere, latch onto bus stabs, and aesthetically look - well, they actually are breakers!
I'm not joking. "Actual ...
answered Jan 5 at 17:04
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5
Having the neutral cross the hot bus is not a code violation.
However since neutrals are not protected for overcurrent, if for some reason a second circuit was tied in and the insulation melted it could damage the panel badly enough to require replacement. I have seen this.
I would route the wire around as not to create this remote but possible hazard.
But ...
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