I've been getting conflicting opinions from electricians on this issue... I'm doing a kitchen reno. I have removed the existing electric wall oven and gas cooktop. A new Gas Range (all gas, not dual-fuel) will be installed near where the old gas cooktop was, using the existing gas line. The question is: Does Code require a 240V 50A range receptacle installed behind the gas range? It appears that for new construction the answer is yes for sure. But some electricians believe that a renovated kitchen does not require this. Also, I believe that an exception applies if the kitchen is in a multi-family dwelling. (We have a tenant in our legal basement apartment.) Has anyone had experience with this?
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Fast answer is no, just a 110 outlet, maybe 15 amp, maybe 20 amp. It is a good idea to keep the existing 240 circuit there if your plan was to remove it. All for the same reason code requires it now, better than that, it is a good idea for future proofing. Besides, won't it be cheaper to leave the outlet there rather than having to pay for the electrician to remove it?– JackJan 11, 2016 at 3:54
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Nothing to remove as there is no 240V 50A outlet there at the moment. (The oven was 30A hard-wired at a different location.) Just had another electrician in here telling me that I need to install the 240V line. So far they are evenly split on this.– doozitJan 11, 2016 at 16:59
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I see, the comment still stands. It is a good idea to have it there, although if the work is being done without a permit, you will be the deciding factor. In the states, any electrical work like so needs to be done with a permit and there for done to code. To simply move or remove an outlet, I would not pull a permit, but it would be done to code. (Don't tell anybody I would not pull a permit...) In all seriousness if there was a lot of electrical reno going on I would pull a permit and have a qualified electrician do the work.– JackJan 11, 2016 at 17:25
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I agree that it's a good idea and I don't have a problem pulling a permit and hiring a licensed electrician. But I'd rather not install a new 10/3 cable to the panel if I don't have to because the basement is finished and the panel is inside my tenant's apartment. Major extra work and disruption involved.– doozitJan 11, 2016 at 18:28
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If the old cable is rated for the circuit, and the end of it is accesible, but a cabinet has to go in its place, it can be brought into a junction box, and run the extension, which may need to be protected, or ran into the wall that the cabinets will cover and terminate it in another junction box in its new location. This explanation is slightly abbreviated, but an electrician can fill in the blanks. It is not the way I would do it, but it may get past some issues and still be legal...– JackJan 11, 2016 at 19:20
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6 Answers
UPDATE: @doozit commented below that this document was just a proposal, which wasn't accepted. (It isn't described as such on the ESA webpage)
A quick google search found what looks like the answer in the Ontario amendments to the Canadian electrical code on the Electrical Safety Authority's page
This reference might be enough for you and your electricians to break the tie:
31.Delete CE Code Rule 26-744(4) and replace with the following:
(4) A receptacle of CSA Configuration 14-50R, as shown in Diagram 1, shall be installed at a suitable location in every single dwelling and in every dwelling unit of an apartment or similar multi-dwelling building for supplying electric energy to an electric range.
32.Add Rules 26-744(10), (11), (12) and (13) as follows:
...
(13) Notwithstanding Subrule (4), the range receptacle need not be installed in
(a) dwelling units where a built-in gas-fired or electric cook top or a built-in gas-fired or electric oven is installed;
(b) other than single dwellings where provision has been made for a gas range; or
(c) dwelling units where power from a supply authority is not available and the capacity of local generation is less than 6 kW.
So it looks like you don't need the receptacle as long as a cooktop or oven is installed.
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Tim, that's the first thing I found when I googled. And it turns out that's a proposal from 2014 to change the rules which was not, in fact, implemented when the OEC was revised in 2015. Also I have since contacted ESA and someone there confirmed that this proposal was considered but rejected because "about 90% of people have electric ranges"! Of course even that person at ESA is interpreting the code and an inspector may interpret differently!– doozitFeb 11, 2016 at 20:39
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I'll leave this in case it helps find answers for this question in the future, such as if those proposals are accepted. Or if feedback is that I should delete it, I'll do that.– Tim BFeb 12, 2016 at 18:14
I posted the original question. For the record, I went ahead and installed the slide in gas range WITHOUT providing a 240V 50A receptacle, knowing full well that this was likely contrary to Code. I did this because the Code requirement would have incurred significant extra expense and inconvenience as the new cable would need to be routed through finished basement ceilings including the ceiling in my tenant's apartment. And this requirement does not appear to be related to safety in any way, only to the convenience of a future owner of the house.
Check the manufacturer's installation instructions for the range, to determine the electrical requirements. A gas range typically only requires a 15 or 20 ampere 120 volt receptacle.
I'm not familiar with Canadian electrical code, but I can't see why a 50 ampere circuit would be required for a gas range. If you were installing an electric range, a 120/240 volt, 50 ampere circuit would likely be required.
answered Jan 11, 2016 at 3:22
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1What you say makes sense. But this isn't about what makes sense, rather what is legal in Ontario. As you suggest the gas range requires 120V 15A. But the Electrical Code here also requires a 240V 50A circuit in new construction just in case someone wants to install an electric range! (or a dual fuel range). But no one seems to agree on whether this is required for renovations.– doozitJan 11, 2016 at 18:18
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@doozit Have you contacted your local building department? They will surely be able to tell you what they require. Jan 11, 2016 at 19:32
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you're absolutely right. Since the electricians are split 50/50 on this issue, I will need to go to the final authority on this. My fear is that there seems to room for interpretation of the rules, even by the authority!– doozitJan 11, 2016 at 22:59
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'the final authority'. Let us know when you get there. Jan 12, 2016 at 22:05
For our kitchen remodel which replaced an electric range/cooktop with a natural gas range. Since the wire and outlet were available, I basically (relocated slightly to be in the new range's location) left the 40 amp 120/240 volt outlet and wiring there in case someone wants to use a welder or heavy duty compressor an electric oven someday.
The new range has two ovens: a conventional size bake/broil/etc portion powered mostly by natural gas (the igniter is a non-sparking electric heating mechanism), and an 8 inch high electric oven as the lower drawer. That oven requires 12+ amps at 120 volts, so 20 amp 120 volt service in the form of a standard residential outlet was needed.
Any reason not to do the same thing in your situation?
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The comments to the original question clarify that. The question is whether a 50A receptacle was required by code. If so, meeting code would require running a feed to the panel, and he was looking to avoid that. The existing feed was not sufficient for 50A.– Tim BFeb 10, 2016 at 21:47
this is a very clear rule. your one electrician is incorrect. section 26 of the OEC requires no 240v outlet where a built in gas range or oven is installed (this means it is hard plumbed to the gas line - it cannot have a quick disconnect - but they aren't allowed anyhow). its OEC section 26-744 (revision date november 2011) section 4), 10)-13). you will however need a 110v outlet for powering the lights and electronics for the range (26-712-2, ii.)
done
answered Feb 11, 2016 at 1:11
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Ah! I interpreted "built-in" differently, as in built into the cabinetry and cannot be moved away from the wall. Since my gas range can slide out, to me it isn't built in. Are you sure that OEC is using your definition of "built-in"?– doozitFeb 11, 2016 at 20:30
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if its hard plumbed to the wall, its built in. as an example, a barbecue outside with a quick disconnect would be a furniture appliance. ie. it can be removed without tools or specialized knowhow. similarly, a standard electric range is considered a furniture appliance as anyone can unplug it and remove it. Feb 13, 2016 at 4:05
"BUILT IN" is a built-in oven and or built-in countertop cook-top. A "slide-in" range does NOT qualify as it can be easily removed and replaced with an electric range. Ontario code REQUIRES an adequate electrical supply be provided at ANY slide-in range location, whether you chose to install electric or gas. That is Ontario Code - and must be met any time a "full renovation" is done - ie- any time walls are opened and any electrical or structural changes are made.
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This would be a much better answer with a chapter-and-verse code citation (not challenging your assertion, just saying that having the text right there can save a lot of arguing down the road) Mar 21, 2017 at 22:14
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Hi all. I posted the original question. For the record, I went ahead and installed the slide in gas range WITHOUT providing a 240V 50A receptacle, knowing full well that this was likely contrary to Code. I did this because the Code requirement would have incurred significant extra expense and inconvenience as the new cable would need to be routed through finished basement ceilings including the ceiling in my tenant's apartment. And this requirement does not appear to be related to safety in any way, only to the convenience of a future owner of the house.– doozitMar 22, 2017 at 23:28