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I recently replaced my kitchen island, and found out that I have some MWBC in my home. I figured it out and the new receptacles are working.


On a separate line, at the countertop, I went to replace a working old dirty receptacle with a GFCI receptacle. Now the GFCI trips. This is how it was originally wired (and working w/ the old non-GFCI outlet)

The MWBC comes in and gets split to items in the 2 gang box 1.[black] a GFCI (which feeds another outlet further down) 2. [red] a 3 way switch (which feeds another light fixture further down)

Diagram

My thoughts: A. The "Input 1" neutral should connect to the outlet, not the wire nut, right? B. The yellow nut is something I can't figure out.

This is what I tried doing, but now the breaker trips. I know one thing I got wrong/ didn't consider on my attempt to rewire is how will "Input 4 / load to another light" work- it seems like it would always be one.

Diagram

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  • GFCI receptacles do not play nice with MWBC circuits. You usually need to use a GFCI breaker on MWBC circuits.
    – crip659
    Commented Aug 15 at 21:48
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    @crip659: That is not true. There is no particular difficulty in using GFCI outlets on a MWBC. You can place protected outlets on either or both branches, and you can protect standard outlets by connecting them to the LOAD terminals on the GFCI outlet. The only thing you might be tempted to try that will not work is to continue the MWBC architecture past the GFCI by joining the neutral LOAD wires from different GFCI outlets. -- If you are having trouble installing a GFCI on a MWBC, then the MWBC was not wired correctly in the first place. Commented Aug 16 at 1:59
  • The white wire that comes the outside 3-way switch and goes to the yellow wire nut in the original diagram should have had a black marking on it to mark it as a switched hot. When it comes from the other switch. The black wire going to the other load needs to connect to that wire if it's going to be operated by the sitch. As drawn in the second diagram, the switch is connecting red live to neutral.
    – supercat
    Commented Aug 16 at 22:30

2 Answers 2

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GFCIs have the ability to provide downline protection to other outlets. This is the ONLY legitimate use of the "Load" terminals. The "Line" terminals support 2 wires per screw, see instructions for how. If you are not intent and competent to provide downline protection for onward devices, then don't use Load and put everything on Line.

OK, so "input 1” carries power onward to another receptacle, am I correct? Alright, make a decision whether you want that receptacle there to be protected by this GFCI here. The main benefit of doing so is being able to use a $3 socket instead of a $16 GFCI socket.

If you do, then put both its hot and neutral on the GFCI Load terminals. Remember to use the "GFCI Protected" stickers, or the inspector will tag em for not being GFCI.

If you don't, then leave its neutral in the bundle and move its hot to GFCI Line using the aforementioned 2-wire trick.

Also, if you have colored electrical tape not black red green or white, it helps understanding the circuit to make both travelers the same oddball color. They are interchangeable and there is no need to distinguish them from each other. I like yellow, because, brass screws.

Oh, one more thing on the 3-way. You appear to be using the white wire as the switched-hot. That is the one wire it CAN'T be. Your order of precedence is neutral > always-hot > anything but switched-hot. So in this case you would use it as a traveler.

You do need to mark the white wire black or a color, so hey, back to what I said about make both travelers an oddball color.

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  • "Oh, one more thing on the 3-way. You appear to be using the white wire as the switched-hot. That is the one wire it CAN'T be. Your order of precedence is neutral > always-hot > anything but switched-hot. So in this case you would use it as a traveler." - Thanks for the reply, so what would be the fix here?
    – user241867
    Commented Aug 16 at 3:08
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    Use black or red as switched-hot and make white one of the two travelers @user241867. Commented Aug 16 at 3:17
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The "Input 1" neutral should connect to the outlet, not the wire nut, right?

Yes. Just be careful about NEC 300.13(B). By direct connection of the neutral wire, you can no longer mix and match the red and black wires of the MWBC. You will be treating the receptacle and anything past it as a single circuit. This will be necessary to install the GFCI anyway.

This is what I tried doing, but now the breaker trips.

Now you've connected the 3-way switch loop to the neutral wire nut. That's a short circuit, and you're lucky the breaker did its job. Put it back the way it was before you broke it.

By the way, this is why NEC 200.7(C) forbids using white wires as return-from-switch conductors. Neither diagram is correct in that sense. The white wire must be "reidentified" and must be used as a traveller in this scenario. This assumes cables instead of conduit, and would also explain the confusion with the yellow wire nut.

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  • Thanks I corrected this. However, when the switch and receptacle are hanging out of the box, and I flip the 2 breakers on at the same time to test it, it works. When I turn the breakers off, and push everything back in, screw, and put the face plate on, and turn on the 2 breakers, one breaker (gfci receptacle) immediately trips. I've done this dance three times- pull everything out, works; push back in, trips. I know the obvious thing is I have a loose wire, but everything is secured. I'm lost.
    – user241867
    Commented Aug 25 at 17:42
  • One more thing- I noticed on the gfci (the breaker that trips) the hot screw leaving the gfci looks burnt.
    – user241867
    Commented Aug 25 at 18:04
  • I went and got a new gfci, and electrical taped around the receptacle. Pushed everything in, breaker didn't trip. Plugged in my outlet tester which moved the receptacle a tiny bit (since the 2 gang box isn't super secure and I can't firm it up because it is surrounded by a tile backsplash, but was planning on trying some construction adhesive). Well that little movement caused the gfci to spark and fry, and trip the breaker. I'm out of ideas.
    – user241867
    Commented Aug 25 at 19:06
  • @user241867 You should start a new question about the loose connections, with photos. Commented Aug 25 at 19:28
  • Update: I caved and looked for an electrician for the first time in years. I've had plenty of DIY experience but admit I am still a novice. He showed up today; provided him with a (3rd) new gfci. He did everything I did except put a wire nut on the grounds. Everything worked out. I have no idea what I did wrong...
    – user241867
    Commented Aug 26 at 2:53

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