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Okay I have seen this issue before on this forum but no specific answer for my question.

I have a main panel 120/240 single phase with two poles A and B, neutral and ground. I have moved several loads to a sub panel that is fed from the main panel. The sub panel is fed with a 2 pole breaker on the main panel a neutral and ground from the bars. I am using a isolation breaker device/switch on the sub panel to disconnect the feed from the main panel and turn on the generator receptacle to allow the sub panel to run off the generator as it disconnected the main feeder from the main panel. This is a typical metal slider on the outside of the panel cover that stops one breaker being turned at the same time. one is always on and the other is always off. You simply slide the metal which turns both breakers to the opposite conditions.

I run this way so only the minimum required loads run with the generator.

Here is my yes or no questions. Can I simply run the main panel off the grid and the sub panel off the generator at the same time? Is there any issues with the neutral being connected between the main panel and the sub panel?

I understand that this works well with the main panel turned off (main breaker off) but the neutrals are still connected to the grid.

I want to convert my sub panel from an emergency generator feed panel to a low load solar 100% off grid panel where both panels are on all the time with different sources.

This scares me as to protect the solar equipment. Can this be done? Any risk have a shared neutral? I will never be able to back feed the main from the sub with the transfer switch, but the neutrals are keeping me up at night.

Please let me know. Thanks. Brian enter image description here

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Neutral and ground need to be separated at the subpanel. Neutral on a neutral bar which is isolated from panel chassis, and grounds on a ground bar attached to panel chassis. The subpanel needs a 4-wire feed. This may seem absurd since they go to the same place, but don't do what Great Britain does and try to combine them! Your GFCIs will laugh at you if you do.

Neutral and ground are bonded at the main panel, or to be more precise, at the first disconnect past the meter (where ground rods also come in).

Here is my yes or no questions. Can I simply run the main panel off the grid and the sub panel off the generator at the same time? Is there any issues with the neutral being connected between the main panel and the sub panel?

With that type of generator interlock which switches hots only? YES - however, on your auxiliary generation equipment (generator or solar), neutral and ground must be isolated.

Remember the rule where the supply must be bonded? Many portable generators and solar inverters e.g. "solar generators") have neutral-ground bonding, in the service of that worthy goal. The problem is, they can't be used on your type of "non-neutral-switching" interlock, unless they provide a procedure for un-bonding neutral and ground.

I understand that this works well with the main panel turned off (main breaker off) but the neutrals are still connected to the grid.

That's fine, though. It takes 2 wires to complete a circuit. If only 1 wire is connected, no circuit!

Here. As a thought exercise, imagine you pull the neutral-ground equipotential bond in your main panel/disconnect, and replace it with a heavy 2 volt transformer so that your ground is pushed 2 volts away from neutral. (but that transformer can flow 10,000 amps of current momentarily, so breakers will still trip and the system will work fine). Now referencing from ground, your L1/N/L2 voltages are 122V, 2V and 118V.

Remember the part where I said neutral and ground must be isolated on the solar and generator? If they're not, we are shorting neutral to ground creating a 2 volt dead short - that's obviously bad.

But if they are isolated, then simply the generator chassis is at 0 volts, the generator neutral is happily at 2 volts, and hots are at 117V and 113V (let's say it's a 115/230V generator). Everything is fine!

What about a neutral-ground short? Generally becuase we did not actually put a 2V transformer there, it's not a terrible thing. However if the generator or solar has GFCI protection on its output, that will trip the GFCI. Note that you cannot backfeed a GFCI breaker, so don't go thinking "Aha, I'll replace the generator-side breaker in my subpanel with a GFCI". If you wanted to retrofit GFCI to the solar or generator output, you'd need a standalone GFCI in a 2-space panel of its own.

This scares me as to protect the solar equipment. Can this be done? Any risk have a shared neutral? I will never be able to back feed the main from the sub with the transfer switch, but the neutrals are keeping me up at night.

Just think about the mental exercise of "replace your neutral-ground bond with a magic 2-volt transformer". If everything there checks out, then you have the isolation you need.

Why do we care? Several reasons but here's a big one. Faults throw huge amounts of current between neutral and ground. If there's a difficult-to-detect problem in your panel, that current could path via your generator's ground wire, out to the generator, via the generator's neutral-ground bond, back out the generator's neutral wire, and back to the utility. Since none of these are either switched nor breaker protected this could start a fire. The solution to this problem is either a transfer switch that throws neutral (Canada has subpanels that do that), or isolate neutral and ground on auxiliary sources.

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  • THANK YOU SO MUCH, however, my question is concenting the neutral in the sub-panel needs to be connected to the main panel due to feeding the panel from the grid power. When the generator is running, the neutral of the sub panel is connected to the main panel. Both panels have isolated neutrals/grounds... separate bars, but both bars are linked to the main panel. Are you saying that I cannot use GFIs on the sub panel as the generator will trip it? I believe that the gen set is isolated ground... but how do I check? Thanks Again, Brian Commented Apr 17, 2023 at 21:53
  • @Brianbowman that wiring diagram looks fine, except on the utility side, the first disconnect past the meter needs to have a neutral-ground bond. You will not be able to use a GFCI as the backfeed breaker that is interlocked. GFCIs on branch circuits will be fine. Check the labeling and instructions on the gen set for neutral bonding. Commented Apr 18, 2023 at 4:13
  • thanks... at the meter the neutral is bonded to the ground with two 10 foot rods. I am worried about the neutral that is not disconnected between the main panel and the sub panel when the two panels are on different sources... they will not be in synced or in phase with each other. is that problematic as the grid will be pulsing at one side and the generator will be pulsing at the other side both crossing the panels... I don't understand how these different sources will stay confined between the panels without a disconnect. Thanks... Commented Apr 18, 2023 at 12:47
  • @Brianbowman Bonding at the meter sounds correct if a disconnect is out there. Syncing doesn't matter if they only share one wire. Takes two to make a circuit. The two could be "neutral" and "ground" which is why you need to remove spurious neutral-ground bonds. Commented Apr 18, 2023 at 20:39
  • Thanks... yes, the meter has a main breaker because of the required entrance panel outside the house, and I would agree, it just sounds a bit wonky... like the alternating current just doesn't travel down a dead end? Thanks everyone for the insight. I was just worried about the stay electrons effecting my equipment. Brian Commented Apr 19, 2023 at 3:29

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