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I just purchased a new ceiling fan (Savoy House 52-831-5RV-SN). The light kit socket has a sticker that says "MAX 9w LED." There's no mention of the incandescent max. I'd like to use an 11w LED in the kit, because the 9w isn't providing enough lumens to light the room. I'm willing to accept somewhat worse LED life, so long as there's no serious danger from the increased wattage (if, as I think is likely, the true wattage limit is 60w).

My assumption is the incandescent max is 60w and the sticker is just being written in LED terms---it would be weird for a lamp to have an actual 9w max, and seems like that would be really dangerous (if someone, for is to be put a 40w incandescent in it). But I'm not sure.

The light kit is covered underneath but not enclosed by a glass dome.

Questions:

  1. Can I assume the socket/fixture/wiring is 60w incandescent rated, such that an 11w LED or 20w halogen would be safe to use from a fire perspective?

  2. How much loss of life would I expect from an 11w LED in such a situation.

I have heard that some jurisdictions are taking standard 60w fixtures and now writing the max in LED terms, but I didn't know if things are backward compatible. Will 40w incandescent bulbs always be safe in standard sockets that say 9w LED max?

Thanks

M

UPDATE: The old manual people are finding online called for three 60w, the new manual reflects the updated light kit and only calls for 2 9w.

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  • Is this fan fixture on a dimmer? May 10 at 0:48
  • 1
    Yes. And it's a standard medium base socket.
    – Matt G
    May 10 at 1:15

2 Answers 2

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You mean "the particular 9W light which I selected does not output enough lumens to light the room to my satisfaction". Okay.

What you actually want is lumens of light.

The apocryphal classic "60W incandescent" is considered 840 lumens.

Note that many LED sellers will claim their light is a "60W equivalent" even though their LED is not actually 840 lumens. They are trying to convince you to settle for less light.

It is also notable that not all LED lights have the same efficiency. An 840 lumen light might be 11 watts, might be 8.4 watts (100 lumens/watt is not a high bar), or might even be 4 watts. (a Dubai LED must be >=200 lumens/watt).

The manual claims it is supplied with three 60W candelabra bulbs, so clearly it is UL listed to use those, and is probably shipped with LEDs to meet some EPA or state requirements.

Your concept of a 20W halogen won't work. A 20W halogen cannot produce anything near 840 lumens. It might feel like it works because you think fondly of halogens, but this is a "confirmation bias" - the bane of science.

The reason for the incandescent wattage limit is the heat from the lamps will potentially set the fan or ceiling on fire.

The reason for the wattage limit for LEDs is that LEDs need to be able to cool themselves or they will burn out. The confinement of the fixture limits how much air convection cooling is possible.

None of this has any bearing on LED efficiency.

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  • Thank you for the response. I actually do have a lumens problem---the room is huge and probably needs 2500-3000 lumens. I would normally think 3 75w incandescents or 3 11-12w LEDs would be appropriate for this, but I didn't want to exceed the 9w MAX if it was going to be dangerous to the socket/wiring. As I understand you, the only concern is the LED bulb overheating and losing lifespan, there's no concern about the actual socket/wiring, since it almost surely a 60w max in reality?
    – Matt G
    May 10 at 0:08
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    Philips has a new Ultra Efficient series - the exclusivity deal for the famous Dubai LEDs has ended. You can get 840 lumens in 4W. As a bonus, because the LEDs are driven at a lower operating point, the bulb will live longer.
    – jaskij
    May 10 at 19:34
  • Is this fixture on a dimmer? Are the Phillips Ultra Efficient Series dimmable? Will it be controlled by wireless remote or a standard wall switch? May 11 at 3:00
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From the manual for this model (52-831-5RV-SN): "This unit is equipped with a wattage limiting device. Lamping in excess of 190 watts will disable your ceiling fan's light kit. To reset your light kit you must turn the power off and re lamp, keeping the wattage under 190 watts. Restore power to your ceiling fan and continue normal operation."

The same manual says the unit includes "60W candelabra bulbs (3)", though it doesn't say how many sockets there are. It would make sense that there would be three sockets though, as 3 x 60W = 180W, which is below the wattage limiting circuit. Companies also (generally) don't provide extra bulbs in my experience.

see: https://www.savoylightinglights.com/product/savoy-house-lighting-mystique-indoor-ceiling-fans-52-831-5rv-sn.html https://media.lightingnewyork.com/vendors/sav/install/52-831-5RV-SN.pdf

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  • That's the old manual. The new light lkit has two sockets and the manual now says use 2 9w LEDs
    – Matt G
    May 10 at 19:39
  • Hmmm, that's annoying. Their old webpage does mention that it comes with 2x 9W LED bulbs that provide a total of 750 lumens, but it still links to the outdated manual. Given that ambiguity it would make sense to me to contact the manufacturer directly. One might assume that the two models are identical, with the only difference being the bulbs and fixture change (plus the sticker), and I think the odds are very high that is true (that would require minimal changes at factory to produce). But getting an answer directly from them would give me piece of mind I could point to if something happens.
    – user373533
    May 14 at 1:10
  • In other words, if they are identical other than the bulb sockets being changed, then it might still actually be designed to handle a total of 180 watts of actual power draw. Make should be able to confirm that.
    – user373533
    May 14 at 1:12

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