0

I am going to be pulling 4/0 4/0 2/0 service wire in 2-1/2" conduit for 175ft. One end is at the meter coming up out of the ground though a 24" sweep and about 3ft of straight conduit on end. Meter is mounted on a 6x6 post. The other end is at the transformer and is straight with open trench on the last couple feet for access to pull wire. I would be able to pull straight out and up.

Seems to me, to be able to get a good pull on wire, that coming from the straight end at transformer would be the easiest. I would appreciate recommendations from anyone with experience doing similar pulls Which direction should I pull from? Thanks

Improve this question
17
  • Is there any elevation change between them? As a rule, pull downhill if there's a slope. You want gravity on your side.
    – Ecnerwal
    Jun 11, 2021 at 2:40
  • @ecnerwal - maybe a foot or so over the 175ft. But I would have to pull up though the sweep to meter if I pull from meter side and meter is also on the higher side.
    – Dean
    Jun 11, 2021 at 2:49
  • 2
    One way to have to pull 170+ feet of cable round a 90 degree bend, the other way you only need to pull 4 or 5 feet round the bend. do you have any mechanical assistance?
    – Jasen
    Jun 11, 2021 at 3:45
  • @jasen - No mechanical assistance, just muscle and lube. I understand what people are saying about not having to pull it all down the 24" sweep, but it also seems very hard to pull up 5ft though the 24" sweep. From the straight end I have ability to pull straight out and use multicable people if needed or hookup a come along or truck and pull if needed (last resort). Everyone seems to think it's a piece of cake pull. But, since I have never done one I am just using what I think is common sense
    – Dean
    Jun 11, 2021 at 16:04
  • 2
    There is a reason code limits pulls to 360 degrees. Each bend increases the force on the wire by 360 mechanical means are often needed with large wires. Reducing the length of wire required to go through bend(s) is what pros do, yes we consider elevation but in this case it would need to be closer to a story before considering putting the entire length through a 90 there will be much more damage to the wires than only pulling 10’ through the 90.
    – Ed Beal
    Jun 11, 2021 at 16:25

6 Answers 6

Reset to default
4

This is subjective I see opinions of folks that don’t do it often.

Pull the wire the to the bend so it will will be last with all other things being equal.

If you start the wire at the bend the entire pull has the 90 to pull through, if you pull the wire so the bend is at the end you only have the weight of the wire to deal with.

Make sure to have someone pushing (pulling wire off the spools) and pushing while the person at the other end is pulling this is an easy pull in ether direction but less resistance with the bend last.

Improve this answer
5
  • I agree with your statement. But, would it really be affect from 170ft with someone pushing on wire from straight end to help get though the elbow, or is it just pure muscle to pull the last 10ft?
    – Dean
    Jun 11, 2021 at 18:23
  • 1
    Dean, it makes a huge difference having someone to pull the wire off the spool, I use a tugger on big pulls think of a chain saw winch used outside but it is a full time gearbox to a gas motor and a capstan (I also have a 120v electric) I have snapped mule tape 2500 lb on 4 wire pull 4/0 with 3 90’s because my apprentice did not believe him pushing the wire made that big a difference, we had to pull back and I went to get 5k rope and he told me that he was not helping. We pulled it in the second time without even dropping into low gear all he was doing was spinning the spools & applying lube.
    – Ed Beal
    Jun 11, 2021 at 18:50
  • And think of the forces that is creating on the conduit pipe! Another reason conduit needs to be backfilled and tamped.
    – Harper - Reinstate Monica
    Jun 11, 2021 at 19:22
  • @Harper-ReinstateMonica - I completely understand, but I do not have a winch. I do have a come along, but nothing to mount it to, to pull straight up from 24" sweep side, which is why I am leaning to pull the other directly. so someone can push the cable down, while someone pulls. I am getting all stressed out over this and this forum is just confusing me more. Everyone has been telling me how easy of a pull this will be, but you guys are making it sound like a very hard pull regardless of what direction I pull. Seems like a 50/50 split of what everyone things is the best direction to pull.
    – Dean
    Jun 11, 2021 at 20:01
  • Dean this pull will be heavy think of the weight dragging on the ground. This is not a hard pull. I would use pull soap or lube, A quart will be plenty and will make the job easier. You only need to lube the first 1/2 after ~80’ no more lube is needed the pipe has enough. A second person pulling the wire off the spools and applying lube makes this A easy pull because of the single 90, the question is the direction, I highly recommend a helper OR you may end up running to the spools to unwind then going to the other end to pull many times. Lube is not required but it helps reduce friction/ wear
    – Ed Beal
    Jun 12, 2021 at 5:23
3

I would feed at the elbow, less likely for 6 feet of rope to cut into the conduit elbow.

I always use a little pulling lube. It shouldn't take much, most of the friction will be at the elbow. If pulling toward the meter and the lube drags off it's hard to add lube for the last 6', but if pushing into the meter and it starts to drag it's easy to add lube to the friction point.

Pushing into meter it is less likely for the lube to pick up debris from the trench going into conduit and (selfishly) less cleaning of the wire for termination in the meter. You should at least wipe down the utility end, but they will likely just trim off the worst part of it.

If the pull gets tough the helper pushing into the elbow is quite effective, pushing into a conduit not fixed in place, 170' away, might not prove to be much help.

Improve this answer
4
  • 1
    It is always easier to pull with someone taking the wire off the spools even small 12 awg is much easier. A “pusher” also reduces the damage to the outer jacket that is there to make the pull easier and protect the actual insulation.
    – Ed Beal
    Jun 11, 2021 at 15:28
  • 1
    Agree it's easier, I was actually assuming an amateur shouldn't even try to pull it in alone. Anybody who does this for a living and is familiar with nuances (and had to overcome mistakes) could pretty easily find a good layout to do it alone, but lacking experience he needs eyes on both ends.
    – NoSparksPlease
    Jun 11, 2021 at 15:40
  • of course I am going to have help.
    – Dean
    Jun 11, 2021 at 16:06
  • @Dean No offense was intended, just drawing a distinction.
    – NoSparksPlease
    Jun 11, 2021 at 16:13
1

I would feed from the elbow end, assuming you have a helper. Wire that thick is stiff, and then pushing the wire down the elbow a few feet away would be loads easier than pulling through the elbow with 200’ of cable dragging.

And, always use lube.

Improve this answer
1
  • 2
    So you think forcing 3 heavy wires through a 90 for 170+ feet is easier than only having to pull them through a 90 for ~10’ interesting. It looks like someone else agrees that has not pulled much cable.
    – Ed Beal
    Jun 11, 2021 at 16:11
1

The question is subjective and probably depends on the nuances of your situation. Here's some general advice. You decide.

Benefits of feeding from the end with the elbow:

  • An assistant can help push past the elbow and bend the wire.
  • The pull is much easier for the remaining distance.
  • You don't have to get through the elbow while dragging the wire all the way.

Benefits of feeding from the straight end:

  • It's easy sailing most of the way.
  • You'd only need to pull a short length beyond the elbow.
  • There will be less wear on the conduit from the pull string.
Improve this answer
2
  • 1
    Is it really that hard to pull though one 24” sweep in either direction? This triplex seems to want to coil with a nice Radius naturally. And if someone is pushed from a few feet above it just seems like it would flow so easy. But yes I know I don’t have experience. But I do have common sense
    – Dean
    Jun 12, 2021 at 1:36
  • Dean the 90 is not the problem at all it is the 170’ that is a fair amount of weight ~350 lbs if I did the math right sure it can be pulled not a problem but a second person, lube and direction of pull all make a difference.
    – Ed Beal
    Jun 12, 2021 at 5:55
0

Ed Beal's pulling advice is as good as advice gets.

The electrician promised to hook up the meter, that was not the same as telling you to pull the wire before the meter is installed and then thread the wires through the meter KO. No electrician would say that. I would definitely install the meter before pulling wire, because not doing so is a blatant code violation.

I realize that's a complication you may not have figured for, but that's why being your own GC is hard.

Expecting the electrician to thread the wires through the KO would not be a thing I would do, unless the electrican told me to. You are just begging for a much bigger complication than you have now. It's hard enough finding an electrician willing to follow behind a DIYer and "turn the last bolts". Don't give them reasons to doubt the arrangement.

It is more difficult to guide the wires around the meter pan contents, but not that much more difficult - the wire needs to be guarded and guided anyway on the feeding end, or pull forces will greatly increase as Ed says.

As far as which direction to pull, you need to have a plan and the necessary equipment, and you need to know you have it. So I will actually go against Ed's advice for several reasons, and advise feeding at the meter and pulling from the flat end. The difficulty is greater but that's my point: the job will start hard and get slightly harder as it progresses, so you will sooner know if you need more help. The other direction is easy most of the run, and the last 6’ is like hitting a wall - suddenly quite hard. Again this advice is for a first time puller; Ed certainly doesn't need it!

Also, since I am advising pulling through an installed meter pan, it's easier to guide in loose wires than pull a taut line.

Also, I would ordinarily want the pull rope to be on the end with the unfinished conduit; it's perfectly legal to assemble conduit over a pull rope :) I would only pull the cable through as the power company instructed because they instructed that.

But I maybe wouldn't do it until after the inspector came and went. Last thing you need is to be caught in the crossfire of a jurisdictional squabble between inspector and Utility.

Also keep in mind site security. Aluminum is cheaper, but it's still worth some money. Don't want to have the power company calling and saying "where's the wire" or "why'd you pull it too far" when vandals or thieves did that.

Improve this answer
12
  • monica-Meter box will be there and wires will be pulled though the KO. I am talking about the Meter reader that PUD installs. I am completely following code and being advised by certified electricians. I talk to you guys because I like to educate myself and make sure things are being done right. No corners are being cut. I am using quality products and doing it per code. I am doing everything except attachment of the wires to the boxes panels, and only so I can say a certified electrician did it. I could do it as well & from some of the workmanship I have seen, likely better.
    – Dean
    Jun 11, 2021 at 23:49
  • monica - As for as leaving the conduit short. I don't understand how I am suppose to complete a run of conduit with wires, when I have to first install the conduit, bury it and then pull wire and i can't complete the conduit until I install the wire. Are you following me? I cannot get into the PUD box to complete the run, they have to do it. So, my guess is that L&I has an agreement with PUD that this is the way of business in my county, since in my county this part of the wire run is my responsibility, less the hookups to transformer.
    – Dean
    Jun 11, 2021 at 23:56
  • reinstate Monica - Harper, you your self told me this would be a easy pull in a previous conversation on here. You told me to just use some old rope. I am using 3/4 mule tape. No mention of needing any special equipment. I have a plan and from talking to you and others, I have been told it would be no problem by hand, you stated just wear some thick gloves. So, please don't bust my balls over how I am handling this install. I am going to bring a come along just in case i need it.
    – Dean
    Jun 12, 2021 at 0:02
  • @Dean I'm not trying to, you asked me how I'd do it above, and I'm saying. It sounds to me like you've done your diligence on this and are deviating from NEC because your power company told you to. That works for me. Can't say whether it works for your inspector. I am sure I never said gloved hands would suffice or that it would be easy. Must be someone else.
    – Harper - Reinstate Monica
    Jun 12, 2021 at 0:05
  • I think Ed's advice is good as well, but I also have the other half of this group telling me to pull the other way. I have no idea who is the more experienced with this.
    – Dean
    Jun 12, 2021 at 0:05
0

There's some things to consider about putting wires into conduits.

1: you can't push a wire through a conduit that's longer than the "stiffness length" of the wire. when you push a wire it tends to bunch up. when you pull a wire it straightens out.

2: Bends are a force multiplier they multiply the force needed to pull the wire to the bend by some number

3: lube will reduce the multiplication you get from the bend and the force needed to pull it along the straights

Now your situation:

You have a long horizontal run and a short vertical run.

If you feed the wires from the vertical (meter) end they fall by gravity to the bend so it's mostly multiplying zero by something but you need someone to keep feeding else the friction rapidly increases. A guide or slipper at the feed end may help in feeding the wires as you need to prevent them from getting badly scratched. Pulling horizontally on the ground is much easier than pulling vertically in the air.

Wear gloves when feeding to avoid getting pinched if it suddenly hits an easy spot (or passes a hard spot).

The feeder will need to lift every foot of wire to the height of the inlet and feed it in. If you can support the spool on an elevated axle with will help their task.

Improve this answer
9
  • Thank you for your feedback. My plan is to feed from the meter. I will have my 6'4 strong son in law doing the feeding and my daughter adding lube as it goes in. On pulling end it was going to be me and a neighbor, but I just got a 1500 lb wench and hitch mount. So now the plan is to hookup wench and slowly pull. I made a pull head, peeled back covering about 1 1/2 ft back and folded the wires back, staggering them some. Seems to be no more thicker then the 3 wires I am pulling. When i get up to do pull, I will attach pull line and tape the shit out of it to keep it in place.
    – Dean
    Jun 13, 2021 at 19:37
  • @jason - I know everyone says not to do this, but I am going to pull the meter/breaker panel combo during the pull just to give room to feed and prevent damage. Everything will in installed complete, conduit clamped to post in two places as it come out of the ground. I am just going to unbolt the panel from mounting rails on post. After wire is pulled, I will leave a few feet to feed though the KO in panel and reinstall panel complete.
    – Dean
    Jun 13, 2021 at 19:44
  • They say not to because it's a code violation
    – Jasen
    Jun 13, 2021 at 20:29
  • @jason - why is that. If nothing else is hooked up and it's just to position the conduit coming out of the ground and all the hookups will be done after wire pulled. I don't understand why you would want to pull wire though a KO, especially large wires. Besides being a code, is it really an issue?
    – Dean
    Jun 13, 2021 at 21:31
  • @jason - I want to do things to code. So, I guess I will leave the panel in place. It would be easier to feed wire straight down, a couple feet about without the panel there. If all is clamped and clued, all that needs connect is the KO fitting nut and cap, this rule make no sense.
    – Dean
    Jun 14, 2021 at 0:24

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service and acknowledge that you have read and understand our privacy policy and code of conduct.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.