4

These are the original lights in my 1984 house. They are in all 3 bathrooms, 11 total, in soffits above the sinks. They are 7" cans presently with BR30 45W, 65W, or 75W incandescent bulbs. The bulbs are getting to be harder to find, but for now I can still buy them. The cover is a frosted glass dome. The bulb protrudes slightly below the soffit into the dome.

All the LED BR30 replacements that I have found indicate that they should not be used in enclosed spaces. A 65W LED equivalent is only 11W, so I don't think that it will heat up too much. Maybe the life would be reduced somewhat.

All LED can retrofits that I have found are for 4" or 6" cans. It seems that 7" was never very common. Most of the retrofits are recessed, I really don't want a recessed spot, I want a very broad light so it will reflect off the mirror and provide some frontal lighting.

I have found some flat LED round panels that are designed to be mounted directly to the ceiling without a can. These should meet my broad light requirement, and if I can find one thin enough, this might work. None of these are made by the more respectable companies, that bothers me somewhat.

Any ideas? Maybe buy a BR30 LED and try it?

enter image description here

enter image description here

enter image description here

enter image description here

5
  • Does the fixture specifically call out a BR30? Or is that just what the last owner happened to put in there? I see nothing about this fixture that suggests a BR spotlight type deal is called for. If anything, the BR makes it a little weird because there's this brighter spot in the middle of the diffuser. Apr 18 '20 at 17:49
  • @Harper-ReinstateMonica - I looked inside a few of the others. One has a sticker that says "reflector type only". Previous owner had a mix of standard and reflector. The ones with standard bulbs appeared to have gotten very hot, the stickers were slightly burnt. They all have reflector bulbs now.
    – Mattman944
    Apr 18 '20 at 17:56
  • Burning of labels is also caused by over-lamping, e.g. putting a 100W bulb in a 60W rated fixture, which might explain someone switching from BR to plain. Separate to that... I'd expect a shorter reflector bulb that evenly lights the whole diffuser. Amusing how the sticker says "Use reflector type lamps only with maximum wattage as specified on trim", yet doesn't specify wattage... 60 is usually a good assumption tho. Apr 18 '20 at 18:12
  • Consider if the cost of replacing LEDs with shortened lives more often than ideal is still cheaper than the work to replace the cans with 5 or 6" ones, or with something else. I bet it will be. Also over time LED bulbs may improve in their heat tolerances. Apr 19 '20 at 11:05
  • I couldn't find anything similar to what Harper recommended. I tried an LED spotlight, the beam was too narrow. What works best is a standard A-series LED bulb with the bulb lowered somewhat (vertical has some adjustment range). I did find bulbs that were rated for enclosed spaces. The "reflector only" warning is not being followed, but LED replacements didn't exist back then. The cans don't get hot, the overheating risk doesn't exist.
    – Mattman944
    Oct 9 '20 at 8:50
8

The issue is thermal... and we're fighting two completely separate types of thermal wars.

The war on fire: Incandescent bulbs don't care about heat, they love it, they love being oven lights. They also create a lot of it! A 40W bulb makes 39 watts of heat and 1 watt of light. So with incandescent, the war is to keep the incandescent's heat from setting the building on fire. A great deal of fixture design goes toward that purpose, including the lamping limits (e.g. 60 watts).

The war on product longevity: LEDs and CFLs make far less heat. A 40-watt equivalent LED (7W) is very efficient, it makes 1 watt of light and only 6 watts of heat. However, LED and CFL must be kept cool. Their driver/ballast will have its service life shortened by excessive heat. LED emitters can burn out if not properly cooled. (junction temp at the emitter must be < 185-240F; the heatsink must be significantly cooler to move heat away fast enough.)

So in a closed fixture, the war shifts from "preventing fire" to "keeping the lamps cool enough to last". Certainly a better prospect!

Presumably you will not want to fit LED bulbs brighter than 20 watts actual (about 150 watts effective) because it would be just too much light. That means that thermal issues are completely off the table, and the reflector requirement on the label is simply not required anymore.

  • That said, though: LEDs naturally emit light in about a 150 degree cone. Most of the time you want a cone or a wedge, and this fixture wants exactly a 150 degree cone, which is a perfect fit for LED. Therefore you are better off using a "PAR-style" LED bulb that simply places all the LED emitters in a flat plane aiming downward, and does not use inefficient reflectors at all.

And I would go for one that is shorter than your current BR30s, so it lights the diffuser more evenly.

enter image description here [src: China, not one I'd reco, but this is the general idea.]

The bulb can be as simple as that: raw 5050 emitters arranged on a flat surface. Don't buy an LED that has a PAR style reflector: first, reflectors are silly with LEDs, and second, that will give you too narrow a beam.

3

Yes - I would try the LED Flood light first which generate less heat than incandescent. This is less work than trying to convert the current can mounts to 4" round to mount the flat panels that are mounted by a crossbar in the outlet box. Flat panels don't need a can, but still needs feed outlet, either for power and some for the mounting point.

Below is link to one brand/source that you can select the color temp, etc.

Sample of Selection of color temp - LED Flood

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.