I just saw these for the first time today at Lowe's:
The advantages I can see over the crimp style are:
Has anyone used this type of ring for PEX work and have any thoughts on them?
The benefits of the clamps are exactly as you say - the biggest one being that they're sometimes the only option in a cramped area. They used to be over 5x the price of the rings, which adds up very quickly -- but I see now they are only slightly more expensive.
I don't think they're any less reliable than regular pex crimps, I know of some (at my cottage) that have been fine for 5+ 10+15+ years now.
The stainless steel Cinch Clamps are stronger than the copper Crimp Rings. I know this from personal experience after working with frozen water lines. When the fitted connection freezes with water in the line it will cause the copper Crimp Ring to expand just enough to cause a leak when it thaws. The stronger stainless steel did not expand in a recent test. However, you cannot use the poly tees and elbows with Cinch Clamps.
I just did a remodel, and ended up using PEX clamps. Got the clamps and what-nots at Home Depot. The clamp tool can be a bit of a challenge to use between floor joists, and I did indeed have to do just this in a rather awkward angle, but it worked great. Due to other issues, I had to undo a connection at one point, and peeling the clamp apart wasn't too difficult.
Being able to use the same tool for both 1/2" and 3/4" made it a wise investment. The clamp tool itself auto-releases when the clamp is fully seated, so you don't need to be a plumbing pro to use it.
I have been plumbing for 14 years,and I switched to using stainless rings almost exclusively about 5 years ago. Being able to use just one tool from 3/8" up to 1" was too much of an advantage to ignore. I have never had an issue, or leak, that could be attributed to the ring/tool. I wouldn't advise getting rid of the standard set of copper ring crimpers though. They are still beneficial in certain applications.
I have been in the plumbing trade most of my life, around 28 years. I can tell you that when it comes to tools, you get what you pay for. Cheap tools will perform poorly, and doesn't always do the job. I use both clamps and rings with my professional grade tools, and never had a call back for a leak. I have friends in the trade who have purchased cheap versions of these tools, and have had many problems. So I say again, you get what you pay for.
I agree with all three of your points regarding the pinch ring. I chose to use the pinch ring style to modify some of the work that the previous owner did in our place and had no problems after over a year of them being in place.
I've used stainless cinch fittings and pex tubing for air supply.After two years and at 120PSI no leaks.You'd have a hard time convincing me that this system is not reliable if installed correctly.
All 3 points you make are correct. I'm a DIY and bought these Pex Cinch Clamp Fasteners by Apollo to plumb my new house we were building. It's a 4500 sq ft home and I had a lot of pipe including copper manifolds. My water has been turned on for 5 months now without any leaks. It passed the air test without any issues. The only time I had a leak was when I forgot to clamp the ring on :(
As far as the comment about cheaper tools don't work... I would have to disagree when it comes to the apollo tool. I also used a copper crimp tool for 1 1/4" pipe and that thing is a beast. No doubt it's stronger and more well built than the Apollo cinch tool. However, I don't plan on dropping my tool off a 2 story building so it's good enough for me. Anyway, point being the cost/benefit ratio for the tool alone outweighs the extra cost of the stainless steel cinch rings(and yes they cost more) IMO.
The ring sits so tight around the pipe you can spin it around and it won't leak. Cinch rings are also easier to take off if you know the trick (twist the top off basically). Even after you get the clamp off the pipe is so tight around the fitting you can't pull it off. You have to cut it. This proves just how tight the ring clamps around the pipe.
I installed the pipes in and under the floor joists and it was definitely easier in confined places.
I wouldn't hesitate to use the stainless steel rings again. Don't be afraid of the newer technology.
I began using the steel crimp clamps about 3-4 yrs ago. Before I did that I spoke to a plumber who recommended them over the copper ring clamps because, even in his experienced hands, his Go-NoGo gauge was rejecting about 1 out of every 4 copper clamps. Yes, the steel clamps are a bit more expensive, but IMHO, they are worth it. I have used these in several DIY situations and have yet to have one leak.
i have used these for 18 years and have never had a problem with one fitting i have used them on and thats has to be 10 to 20 thousand we do retrofits on mobile home it cheap and works just make you calibrate your tool every 100 or so clamps and you will not have a problem now home depot sells a battery operated tool for them
The idea of crimps are flawed and leakage around the two crimp bumps are likely. In order to pull a crimp tight, you need to bunch up material at the crimper's closure point. This means there is a noncontact area around the two raised bumps. Joint failures show this clearly, there are no embossed ridges at the bump areas and water stains show leakage at the point where the crimps are raised away from the pipe at the crimp bumps
Secondly why is pipe compound not recommended?
Screwed-tight pipe clamps stretch out, why do we believe cinch clamps will not stretch?
Viega "PEX Crimp Hand Tool", Viega-41723-User-Guide.pdf Says: "The maximum out-of-roundness of a completed crimp shall not exceed .006". This is the difference between the minimum outside diameter of a properly crimped ring and the maximum outside diameter of the same properly crimped ring."
"shall not exceed .006" is crazy, they are just looking for a way to blame the installer. This is plastic and thin stainless that is stretched by a hand tool inside a wall."
I just bought and used the Sharkbite pex crimping system yesterday at HomeDepot to replumb my entire bathroom. The crimping tool was a little less expensive than the clamp tool, and the copper crimp rings were less expensive than the clamps. So, as a DYI job, i save about $30 and all the connections sealed up great. The crimp tool can be a bit awkward in tight spaces, but it's all workable. The clamps might be a nice option for professions plumbers, but for homeowners, the crimp system costs less in parts and tools and seems to work well.
Been plumbing for 10 years in BC Canada and I've never seen any professional plumber or anyone period for that matter use the SS "cinch" rings (for the record it is "cinch" vs "crimp" not crimp vs clamp)
Every new PEX joint is installed using a copper crimp ring. Not saying cinch is bad, saying I CANT say it's bad cause the pros out here just don't use them.
I picked up one of these yesterday:
and it works great. No problem getting it in between my floor joists, and it doesn't appear to be as finicky about keeping the tool exactly perpendicular to the tubing.
As for the different style bands, I'll update here if they start leaking. :)
I don't have any personal experience with the copper rings but a year ago I replaced all the downstairs galvanized steel plumbing with pex using the following tool and pinch rings:
The tool is great because you can operate it with one hand and effortlessly got into some very tight spaces. It's the only tool the average homeowner will need when re-plumbing their house.
It says you should calibrate it daily or whatever so the tool comes with a small piece of metal which tells you whether the tool is crimping far enough or too much. My project spanned 2 weeks with about 150 crimps and I tested the tool every day but more often on the first day; it literally takes 5 seconds to test the tool and get piece of mind. I believe I had to calibrate it only once and that only took about 10 minutes. If you find yourself calibrating the tool after every single crimp then the tool is faulty, return it.
The pinch clamps with guides were a huge time saver as I didn't have to guess whether I was attaching the ring in the right place.
Here is a video of a poor installation of copper rings, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92x9z6uQbV4. It seems all too easy to do it wrong.
Conbraco Apollo PEX 69PTBJ0010C 3/8-inch - 1-inch One Hand Cinch Clamp Tool,Black
Commented
Jun 15 at 0:15
I purchased this type of tool and rings originaly because they didn't have the other tool in stock and I had a job to do. I have noticed several things that I like better since I have now used both. I can visually tell if the pinch rings have been pinched whereas the other style you have to feel it or look closely and in dim light that can be difficult. I have seen many jobs where somebody missed crimping one fitting b4 the water got turned on. I also recently noticed they use them to attach the fuel nozel to the hose at the gas station. The single tool for multiple sizes is also a plus. I'm looking for the racheting pinch ring tool. A coworker of mine had one and it was awsome in cramped spaces.
I have strong reservations about the integrity of both types. I have two leaks after 8 years of service with the stainless steel clamps. My colleague at work has had three leaks in as many months, one causing extensive damage and mold abatement for which the insurance folks are required to make you leave and stay in a hotel room (with 4 boys). Both homes are relatively new 6-8 years service and in the same water system.
I found out that the tools are supposed to be calibrated every 30 connectors but usually are not.
My clamps seem to lose compression over time and I have one slow leak and one leak around the circumferential space between fitting and tubing. My colleague had complete parting of the band so that the leak was open ended flow after the PEX slipped off the fitting.
Mine seem to be under clamped as a result of tool wear. My friend's may have been over tightened by a tool adjusted too tightly.
Three engineers on my floor at work are seriously considering what it would take to replace their entire house full of these clamps. You have about two minutes from leak initiation to serious damage. I am totally thankful we were home, but have little confidence in this product.
The crimp clamps were designed with a built in 360 degree feature in the band to prevent an incomplete seal. I have not used these clamps on ant plumbing applications. However, this type of clamp is used extensively, In automotive applications. It is a patented design that has been extensively tested under extreme pressure situations. The whole secret to using these clamps successfully, is in the initial sizing of the application. You must match the clamp to the outside diameter of the application. All of these crimp type clamps have an open and close diameter. In addition, you must use the specific tool that was designed To be used to crimp the clamp properly.
When working as an auto mechanic, I bought a MAC Tools hand crimper for the Oetiker "clamp" style SS clamps. The MAC tool both squeezes and flattens the little square of the clamp that we squeeze when installing. The MAC tool also has a 1/2" square hole in each handle for using two 1/2" drive ratchets to assist in squeezing if necessary. The main point here is that the finished "squeezed" joint is double squeezed: one radially and one diametrically. Worth checking out for any other tool crazies like me.
The stainless rings are easier to get right or should I say the copper rings are easier to get wrong. Copper crimp tool must be perpendicular to the pipe. Also difficult to keep the copper ring in place until you are lined up and ready to apply pressure.
I use both crimps and the stainless steel rings I like the stainless steel rings better but use copper crimps as well
