This is an old house and pictures show the framing and joists around a stairway opening.

Compared to the “before” picture, you can see that the wood was removed from both sides of the double header. The ledger shown in picture #1 (before) was removed. Joist hangers were installed (pictures #2 and #3). However, the joists do not fully sit on the seat of the hangers. I believe the industry term is “not fully bearing” on the hanger seats.

Will this result in sagging floors or a structural failure? How should the contractor/framer fix this?

Edits 7/16/18: 1. Added “ledger” and “double header” (both are perpendicular to main joists) into the description of the problem. 2. Yes, there is a knot with a crack in the 3rd picture. What to do about it? 3. Would you suggest removing the new joist hangers and putting the ledger back in place (as it was in the first picture)?

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  • deckmagazine.com/design-construction/framing/…. The recommendation here is to remove and reattach properly – Kris Jul 15 '18 at 20:21
  • BTW, that giant knot on the bottom (tension side) of that ledger in the second picture, is what scares the crap out of Structural engineers. Good thing it’s a ledger... – Lee Sam Jul 15 '18 at 20:56
  • How could this possibly pass an inspection?! – Jim Stewart Jul 15 '18 at 22:15
  • Lee Sam, that giant knot is not the ledger. In that picture, the ledger has already been removed. Only the first picture has the ledger. What should I do? what sources can I show the framer that what he did was wrong? Btw, the framer hired a structural engineer who recommended removing the ledger (seen in 1st picture) and using hangers instead.-OP – user88807 Jul 17 '18 at 18:08
  • Kris: Thanks for the link. But how do you re-attach the joist hangers properly when the ends of the joists have been notched out, where the ledger was previously? – user88807 Jul 17 '18 at 18:11

Sorry if this sounds insulting, but that is terrible work.

Build a temporary wall underneath to hold the joists in place while this is being fixed.

Then remove the hangers, cut all the joist ends to 1-5/8" off the beam, stuff a new 2x behind, then re-apply the hangers. (Use plenty of long nails to attach the new 2x to the old beam.)

  • What's the point of the cuts and new two-by? Seems like serious overkill. It would be 1-1/2", btw, or 1-9/16" if you're looking for a fudge factor. An extra eighth would be pretty sloppy, IMO. – isherwood Jul 17 '18 at 19:38
  • Agree that a whole 1/8" is slightly sloppy -- I wouldn't do that in my professional capacity. If the person doing the work is capable of finer tolerances, then I'd encourage it. To answer the first question, the cuts and 2x are intended to push the hanger to a place where it can actually do its intended function. (Maybe I should have specified that the 2x should be the same depth as the original ledger.) – Aloysius Defenestrate Jul 21 '18 at 17:01

I see two problems (and potentially a third). The first is what you've mentioned, that the hangers aren't tight. The second is that there are supposed to be 12d nails (or similar--check the specs) installed toenail-wise through the additional holes in the hangers. The possible third is that the hangers look small, like they're actually 2x8 hangers. The photos are fuzzy enough that I can't read the product code.

Here's what I'd do:

  1. Remove one hanger. Use a cat's paw to pull the tico nails. Use ear protection--it'll be loud. The subfloor will support the single joist just fine, but you could prop a 2x4 leg under it if it worries you.
  2. Press the hanger tight all the way around and tack it in place. Those little tabs you see up near the top are temporary hanger hangers, so to speak. When you press the hanger up tight, drive those into the ledger joist to hold it in place on each side.
  3. Install tico nails (fat shorties) and 12d nails at an angle through the holes on the joist faces. These additional nails are part of the hanger system and shouldn't be forgone.
  4. Rinse and repeat for the other hangers.

This won't take long at all. I could do all 8 or 10 that I see in your photo in about 20 minutes.

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