How is DIY done so much on 'fixer uppers' in areas where AHJs demand permits and licenses? [closed]

Question

I see a lot of cases of major 'fixer upper' homes or general home improvement done in an area where the Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ) requires permits and only offers them to licensed pros. How is this the case? I ask because I wonder if I'm missing something. (Of course it is case by case. For example, one person doing electrical may be working with a licensed electrician to do so, whereas another may be outright doing it themselves illegally. Same goes for structural modifications and remodeling.)

From what I can tell, many people are doing work that requires a permit & license without either. Aside from doing unsafe work, what risks are they taking in doing so? I'd think the risks would be high but the prevalence of this suggests it is not. Part of that could also be, many of the people illegally doing maintenance/upgrades are trying to save a buck, or are doing it on homes that are in such bad shape to begin with that their DIY improvements can only bring good things in quality of life and resale value there.

For more context, consider the answers to Does a homeowner need a permit for electrical work in Massachusetts? It is clear that in some places permits & licenses are required for relatively simple work, and also clear that there are people who don't respect those requirements and would rather risk paying a fine than a pro.

And in another related question, Pros and Cons of buildings permits the risks are made clear, along with reasoning why someone would ignore permit requirements.

Answer 1

Short answer: Inspectors can't be everywhere, see everything, and probably have enough other work.

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I speak as municipal inspector for a smaller city in the Midwestern US.

For you average DIYer who is working on their own, owner-occupied home, I don't lose too much sleep if they extend a branch circuit on the weekend. Even I have moved my washer and dryer over 10 feet and installed new supply line on the weekend, which would be permit-required work in my city.

Also, owner-occupied residential work that requires a permit does not require a license even though I may require a licensed contractor in a rental or commercial.

I empathize with and understand homeowners for not wanting to pay tens of dollars more to do a 10 dollar job. Or understand their plain ignorance about building codes.

DIY work that requires a permit happens all the time. I can't be everywhere, I don't work the weekends, we do have some executive discretion, and I just don't want to be up in everyone's business. The actual permitted work is usually enough to keep my department busy. But I treat everyone fairly, if someone calls the unpermitted work in, I will show up.

However, the hardline is usually at commercial properties and non-owner occupied residences—that is, rentals. When you start doing work that needs to be permitted and licensed and it is not just yourself that is being put at immediate risk, I tend to be hard-nosed.

The risks owners take in doing unpermitted work is wide and varying. From the obvious burning/flooding of their home risk if they don't do it right to more inconvenient problems like slow drains.

Monetarily, if you are caught doing unpermitted work in my city, it will simply result in a stop order until you get the permit—the first time. On the second offense, the fee is doubled. And if you are really persistent, a letter from the city prosecutor with court costs looming.

It is not uncommon for banks and prospective owners to call the building department to look up old permits on work done. Doing unpermitted work could impact your resale value of your home.

And as @blacksmith37 aptly put it, if don't leave any trace of your work outside, no one will know! You don't have to let an inspector into your home to show all the laws you have been breaking!

But if you are caught, be nice, maybe play dumb and you may just get a slap on the wrist.

Answer 2

I will give you an honest answer and could care less about the upvotes/downvotes. Just my experience flipping houses in many US areas and even some overseas over 25 years.

1. First every municipality will have a detailed list of things they require a permit for.

   • almost all places require you to pull a permit for electrical
   • if you pull an electrical permit some places will allow you to do some electrical work. This may or may not include you needing to pass a local electrical permit exam. I have done so numerous times.
   • when applying for a permit most places will take in a percentage (often capped) of the renovations to help offset the costs for their inspection process.

2. If you are doing a lot of work talk to your inspector. If you can actually get the inspector at your city hall (or where ever) please talk to him. Give him an overview of what you may do. And here is why. 80% of the inspectors are GREAT guys that will help you out and downright give you great advice through the inspection/permit process. They will tell you that you don't need to pull permits for certain things and give you hints how to pass quicker for other things. The other 20% of the inspectors... WOW. They have their buddy Johnny the Electrician and if you don't use Johnny then your guy better be perfect (and perfect means whatever the inspector wants). Johnny will charge 50% more. The same goes for all trades. Or you get the inspector who wants everything permitted - yes I have had an inspector ask me to pull a permit for putting in carpet no kidding. My point is know what you are dealing with. If I am dealing with a shady inspector, no way in hell I am pulling permits unless it is for something I know I need to. That is just the truth. We may just skip certain renovations because of this.

3. Don't let #2 fool you I am a pro-permit person. But permits and passing permits mean nothing. I can pretty much have any architect write something up and install a beam or whatever and most inspectors will just sign off on anything. Sure there are inspectors that know their crap... but I am talking about the majority. Pulling a permit doesn't ensure that the job is done right. It just ensures that someone looked at it. I have bought many houses that passed "inspections" that were not done to code, took these to the city and had no recourse. In one case the city made me repull permits (costing over 5k) because their inspectors passed them incorrectly. Anyway sued city and they paid for the work done in the end but took 6 months so I was eating mortgage. My point is here the permit is just another check, not the all being/knowing check.

4. When talking electrical. I will pull a permit if I have a licensed electrician doing work, if I am doing work licensed in the area, or if the work is major. I will not pull permits for switching out outlets (some cities ask you to pull permits for this - I do not ask as once you ask, you are pulling a permit), I will not pull a permit for adding an extra outlet or two to an existing circuit (yes I follow load standards), and will not pull a permit for switching out aluminum for copper.

5. When talking infrastructure... I will pull permit if I am making a modification that is substantial or will impact the house listing - adding bathrooms, bedrooms, square footage. I used to pull for foundation work... But I found that some cities had practices and outdated information that were making my repairs worse and more costly. I have trusted pros doing this work for me and trust their opinions more than an inspector who is getting his info from the local foundation guy (who wants all the business so often does unwarranted things at a house and acts like his way is the only way to meet code). On the other end, I am not pulling a permit to enclose a closet, to shorten or modifying non-loadbearing walls, just not happening.

What are the risks? Well none really if you do the work correctly. If you are afraid work is done incorrectly you could be liable for failings but really when houses are sold they are sold as is. Almost impossible to sue a former house owner. Probably the biggest risk is that when selling the house you did work that shows up on the comp sheet and word gets back to city (this is not common). City then could come out and ask for permits. But the city would have to prove that YOU (not previous owners) made the changes unless they are for unpermitted space.

Also a good home inspector should be able to see bad work and then the work would have to be redone. If substantial you would have to pull permits as home inspector may ask city for them.

To conclude, someone could write a book about your question in the US. I have had so many inspectors tell me "you don't want to pull a permit for that". I have had so many inspectors tell me to pull permits for the dumbest crap. (funny example - had to pull permit for changing out tile in kitchen. Inspector comes out. He is new and just some random dude with a sheet to checkmark. He goes through some other stuff we were doing, he asks if tile was done, one of my guys thought he was talking about the bathroom which was done, my guy says yes, he inspects kitchen tile which is about 40 years old, says good, checked, done). Any homeowner getting work done on their house for roof, electric, plumbing, or major infrastructure should get a permit to help protect themselves.

Edit: Since it has tag DIY vs pro. In most areas the only times you would need a pro is an architect for load bearing changes or new space or electrical. For plumbing it is 50/50 in my area at least. For everything else you can do it yourself. If you do not have experience for some projects or do not have a reputation, please count on your inspector to treat you different. Some are nice and helpful, other will nitpick your work until you get a pro. But when pulling permits if it isn't electrical or major architectural I would assume you don't need a pro and even for those I mentioned you can ask city if you can do it yourself. (example - often I have taken out a load bearing wall. If I well over engineer the cross beam needed many inspectors tell me not to worry about architect sign-off. It is a strategy I use often - pay $75 more for beam plus better beam better for future owners and save $300 on architect)

Answer 3

I see several misconceptions, and a general sense of authoritarianism (the government being a "big brother" there to protect citizens from their own mistakes, prohibiting by default, only reluctantly authorizing).

in an area where permits (only offered to licensed pros) are required.

outright doing it themselves illegally

First, permits are required pretty much everywhere. There are very few "no permit required, do what you want" areas. "This job doesn't need a permit!" is a common refrain, but it is often not true.

Second, I've never heard of a case where a homeowner couldn't pull a permit and do the work themselves. I could imagine that if the AHJ learned through several rounds of inspections that the homeowner was utterly incompetent and refused counsel to that effect, an AHJ could stop issuing them permits anymore... but I suspect that would require a hearing and action by a city council or other court of competent jurisdiction.

And in many areas, commercial work (including rental units) needs to be done professionally, but this can be done by in-house staff if they are qualified.

many people are doing work that requires a permit & license without either. Aside from doing unsafe work

"Lacking a license" and "unsafe work" are orthagonal: they have nothing to do with each other. Almost all use of backstabs is by professionals. I am not licensed and I have fixed a great deal of truly horrible work done by licensed professionals.

This is because professionals are on the clock, rewarded to work quickly. They also have an entire career to build up shortcuts and bad habits, with no force to correct them. They also have an industry working hard to shill shortcuts and bad habits, like backstabs and aluminum branch circuit wire. Some operate their whole careers in a narrow field of practice (e.g. flinging Romex in houses under construction) and don't have an earthly idea what to do when they touch 3-phase, a multi-horse motor, a solar array, or an institutional service-water HVAC system.

Whereas a careful hobbyist who is thorough in his research can get everything correct and work with excellence and flair. He has time, and he certainly has "skin in the game".

risk paying a fine

I have never heard of that penalty. The penalty I have heard of is that you have to rip out the unauthorized work, pull a proper permit, and redo it.