gravel under concrete slab? is it absolutely required?

Question

so, I have a post-frame shed, 12x16. there are posts at 6' on the short sides and every 4' on the long side. posts are set ~18" below grade, on a 2" cap of cement over a few inches of well compacted gravel, holes were all about 27" or so, 2x6 girder runs level at the top (very level all the way around) around base, ok, so, basically I have ~5.5" to grade from bottom of 2x6 girder to top of board, and the Ive got posts set in concrete, at 24" from the top of that board so I want to fill that in with concrete, I could put gravel in, say 2" and 3.5" of concrete over that.

Its about 3.75 cu yards of crete, or like $400 It will cost $100 for gravel to fill in 2", but my crete is still only a little cheaper, and it will be a thinner slab.

I could put gravel in, say 2" and 3.5" of concrete over that or just full 5.5" of crete or I could do lot of gravel and a 2" top coat over that with a bunch of steel and fibers,

Its just a shed, so Im not too worried about it, I'll put steel mesh in and probably fiberglass to control cracks and run a groover down the center.

Point is, can I get away without using gravel and just lay plastic down and pour a slab, or is the clay soil going to destroy it if I dont have a couple inches of gravel. I am not, going to dig this down deeper, or pour higher that the girder.

Its 5.5" of space, with a few low spots I can rake out. It much faster to do a one day pour so I can put my books back in and my tools to keep them dry, so full 5.5" concrete is good and fast, but a couple inches of gravel would be nice, but is a total extra set of work for little gain

thoughts? (yes, I should have done this in a different order, it was not an option at the time)

Answer 1

Summary: No, gravel is not mandatory in all cases; but it can be very important in others. It depends what you need: gravel can provide a capillary break (preventing water from wicking upwards), can facilitate drainage, and can facilitate gas movement (like radon).

So in some cases, these are not always important factors.

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According to BSI-003: Concrete Floor Problems, Joseph Lstiburek, May 26, 2008:

(click through to freely read full article - entertaining as well as informative!)

The plastic sheet also acts as a capillary break. We can use crushed stone as a capillary break if there are no fines in the crushed stones—but the stones don’t act as a vapor barrier. So it is common to use crushed stones with no fines as a capillary break—and then add a plastic sheet over the top of the stones in contact with the concrete as a vapor barrier. Or just use the plastic sheet to do both—be the vapor barrier and the capillary break. So why not just use plastic and not stones? Well the stones can also provide drainage (i.e. be a “drainage pad”) and facilitate soil gas control (i.e. “radon venting”) by creating and extending a pressure field that can be coupled with a vent to the atmosphere. Depending on where you are you will often see just plastic or plastic with stones. Below grade slabs tend to get the stones and plastic approach. Slab-on-grades tend to get the plastic only.

These concepts are also discussed further in the case of basements in BSD-103: Understanding Basements, Joseph Lstiburek, October 26, 2006.

Answer 2

Is gravel absolutely required NO but it is a good idea. Most the time i see slabs poured directly on earth the owners are doing it themselves and the base is not level or has holes. If a slab is not a uniform thickness this can cause cracks even with reinforcement of fiberglass, mesh or rebar.

Answer 3

The clay won't do anything to the slab that it wouldn't do to the gravel. It's ok to pour on the clay, except.......

If you would have said anything but "installing it on clay", I'd say "no problem ". However, the problem with clay is water will not percolate down and away from the slab. We don't like water laying on the bottom of slabs because it will "wick" up through the slab...especially if there's heat in the building.

Your situation is a little different, I think, because it's a "shed". I doubt if you're going to install a floor covering. If you are, then the moisture wicking through the slab could cause the flooring to come loose. If you're not installing a floor covering, then you may see a damp spot from time to time if you live in a damp region.

By the way, I would not install the mesh in the slab. They never install it in the correct location (in the middle of the slab) and then it causes the slab to crack. They lay it down on the ground before the pour and then tell you they will use hooks to pull it up during the pour. It can't be done. So, then the steel is on the bottom and makes the slab shrink less than the top of the slab. That's a crack for sure.

Answer 4

I used to pour concrete working for a mason. Yeah we were standing in it BUT one guy would pull it up while another Screeded with magnesium 2x4. Another guy or 2 behind with come slings pushing Crete behind screed. Yes it is difficult if you don’t pay attention but it is possible to pull up the wire mesh as you work your way back from the screed. And I’ve jack hammered out a fair amount of old slabs and found the wire is not sitting on bottom of slab. You definitely can end up with this happening if your not attentive to it but it is possible to pull the wire up. Buy flat wire and tie ends together. Rolled wire is a royal pain to wrestle with.