2

I've been told that a tankless electric water heater is enormously more expensive than a tank water. I have a 50 gallon water heater that I must replace. I have a friend who is a plumber telling me that I would pay 2-3 times more for electricity with a tankless water heater, but what I've been reading doesn't seem that it would be more.

Does anyone have any experience with an electric tankless water heater that would do at least 7 GPM (2 bathroom home; don't need it for washer or dish washer)? What kind of an electric bill differential are you seeing?

  • What advantages do you see for a tankless heater over a tank (storage) water heater? – ThreePhaseEel Jan 2 '17 at 18:01
  • My water heater caught on fire and I am concerned about having this happen again. This was a rather new water heater (about 2 years old) and a leak caused an actual fire in the thermostat box that nearly lit the closet on fire. Barely caught it in time. Further, I'm also looking to possible SAVE on the electric bill if possible, but have found some very, ver mixed information on the energy bill impact for electric tankless heaters... – ylluminate Jan 2 '17 at 18:11
  • Where are you on this planet? Also, do you have a water softener, and if so, are you plumbing it through the heater? Finally, what was the state of the anode in the leaky water heater? – ThreePhaseEel Jan 2 '17 at 18:14
  • 3
    If your current 50-gal water heater is electric, you won't be able to get an electric tankless that will replace it. The only tankless that size would be gas fired. A tankless gas that would work would have a burner rated at 200,000 BTU/h. This converts to 60 kW which at 240 V would draw 250 A. – Jim Stewart Jan 2 '17 at 19:02
  • 1
    @Jim Stewart - not to mention that he would likely need to upgrade his transformer and service drop and add a second 200A service panel. If his utility has a demand charge for rate of consumption then the electric tankless setup would also cost more to operate. – user39367 Jan 2 '17 at 19:15
4

...in a modern tanked heater with modern levels of insulation, and people actually using hot water from time to time, standby losses are microscopic .vs. use. So a tankless electric is a very expensive electrical installation (huge power draw needs huge wiring and often a service upgrade to support something like 3X 40A breakers) that might save 1-3% on heating water.

If you want to save money on heating water, consider a tanked heat pump water heater - there you can get some serious efficiency that actually applies to the hot water you use. Unless you heat your house with electric resistance heat, it's a win even in the winter, (your heating source heats the air that the heat pump removes heat from to heat the water) and in the summer it helps keep the house cool "for free."

  • What is the noise level of these heat pump hot water heaters? What is their lifetime? – Jim Stewart Jan 2 '17 at 22:38
  • Spec sheet on one heat pump hot water heater shows only 24 A at 240 V. cdn.globalimageserver.com/… – Jim Stewart Jan 2 '17 at 23:09
3

All else being equal, the tankless unit will use less KWH electricity than the unit with the tank because the tankless does not spend energy keeping hot water on standby. However, depending on your local electric utility's billing policy the tankless may be much more expensive to operate.

The reason is demand charge. Utilities support infrastructure for maximum rate of usage in addition to total KWH consumed. In some jurisdictions utilities do not bill residential customers for demand rate. In other jurisdictions demand rate is everything.

Based on the plumber's comments I imagine OP lives in an area where the demand rate is a big factor on the monthly bill. The utility should have a rate schedule available for customers to look at.

1

Tanked will lose about 2kWh/day, tankless 20Wh/day, so tankless will lose about 700kWh/year or about 105$/annum @ 15c/kWh electricity. On the other hand tankless needs big current (20kW at least to give decent flow of 10L/min) so if it's next to breaker box it'll be quick and easy to install, if it's far, just go to another tanked or switch to tanked heat-pump that can heat the same tank for 1/3 the energy.

-1

"Enormously more expensive" is just wrong.

That may be true for certain specific cases, depending on "how the cookie crumbles". In that case, he'd be able to give you specific reasons why that technology would not be wise for your house.

One example might be a need to go with a non-direct-vent gas unit in a new location and have to punch a hole in the roof for new venting.

If he's making that as a blanket statement, he is just plain wrong. I would suspect an ulterior motive, and you probably don't want to start that conversation LOL.

Electric on-demand heaters are not necessarily more expensive than tanked heaters. I generally find they're surprisingly inexpensive. Gas on-demand heaters are pricey, however, especially if new vent plumbing is required.

New technology works better when you're smart.

Many new technologies are vulnerable to being applied in a klutzy and inefficient way that makes them not work well at all. That's where, again, skills pay the bills - and people without skills get frustrated trying to make new technologies work.

One example of a sizing issue: Adding a low-flow showerhead can allow use of a much smaller heater, which can mean running much smaller cable.

With on-demand, you might use more

This means the middle person in the shower who used to have to hurry to leave the last person anything at all, doesn't hurry anymore. The last person can take the time they need. That extra use is a true luxury you now have, but it's not free.

Crossing over from gas to electric may add energy cost

Since electric energy starts as heat, and only 33-40% makes it into electric energy, it's an inefficient way to buy heat. When you burn your own natural gas, you get 80-90% of the therms in your water. So, X therms of electric is generally more expensive than X therms of gas.

It's not only about cost: convenience is worth it.

We are affluent Americans. We have money for conveniences. On-demand does some amazing things:

  • Unlimited hot water. This is huge. Especially if you have a family showering.

  • Quick hot water. With electric, you don't need a vent, and the unit is not large, so you can position it near the point-of-use. That means hot water in seconds, not minutes. What's your time worth? What's the water you flush down the drain worth?

  • Gas fired tankless heaters can be put on an outside wall. This means no damage if they fail catastrophically, but would mean a longer run of pipe to the point of use. Mine is however centrally located inside where the 40-gal tank used to be. I have a pan under it, but if it would start spraying water would get all over and cause damage. I am counting on it failing by developing a slow leak. I have had two gas fired tanks fail catastrophically. Damage was significant, but I was home both times so the damage was not colossal. – Jim Stewart Jan 3 '17 at 0:06
  • @JimStewart Tankless fails are really a 'little thing' compared to tanked fails. Tankless fail is like 'leaving a (cold) tap open' even though usually the 'failure' is having no hot water due to limestone clogging the heater while tanked fail il like 'having a bathub full of scalding-hot water running trough the house' – DDS Mar 27 '18 at 15:20

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.