Timeline for Electric Range Outlet wiring Upgrade from 3 wire to 4 wire
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
15 events
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| Mar 20, 2023 at 21:58 | comment | added | Ken | @AKG yes this is something you really want to do right. You had asked 'what is the risk in bonding at plug. There is a reason for the Electrical Code. 1: Fires (which causes loss of property and potentially life). 2: Electrocution which causes loss of life. Codes can sometimes have semantics or preference but almost 100% of the time when people fail to follow them they don't choose a just as safe method; if there was an option. They generally take a short cut in time, money or both.. My motto: It is always cheaper to do it right the first time than to do it right the second time. | |
| Mar 17, 2023 at 18:22 | comment | added | Harper - Reinstate Monica | @AKG A 3-wire range hookup is hot-hot-neutral (NEMA 10 connection) and it does not have ground. A 4-wire range hookup is hot-hot-neutral-ground. See diy.stackexchange.com/questions/236775/… Heating elements all are connected L1 to L2 (hot to hot) and don't intentionally connect to either neutral or ground. No one intentionally connects any load to ground; the worry with 3-prong ranges is they are intentionally connecting equipment chassis to neutral. (bootlegging ground). | |
| Mar 17, 2023 at 3:36 | comment | added | AKG | OK, I'll try once more: if the cooktop circuit isn't using neutral, it must be using the ground, which is the same as a 240V 3-wire range. The 120V fans, lights, clocks use the neutral. Is that right? So, if somehow the ground fails, the range no longer gets hot. If the neutral fails, the lights don't work. Right? Is there any rule or convention for which hot leg (black or red) is used for the 120V circuit? And thank you for the tutorial - first time I think I have ever really understood what is going on. | |
| Mar 16, 2023 at 18:04 | comment | added | Harper - Reinstate Monica | @AKG not the heating elements, but the other stuff - timer motor, light, tumble motor, etc. so they can be the same as on a gas dryer (cue smooth jazz). Same for a range, except the cooktop doesn't use neutral, so it'll keep working and you won't find out abut the lost neutral til you open the oven door. | |
| Mar 16, 2023 at 14:39 | comment | added | AKG | Got it, I think. The range elements circuit is completed back to the panel on the neutral wire. If some connection fails, the stove no longer gets hot, but otherwise is not dangerous. The range chassis is grounded via the ground wire, either back to the panel (or a retrofitted ground) so if some malfunction results in energizing the chassis, we get a short circuit that will trip the breaker. Is that more or less correct? | |
| Mar 15, 2023 at 20:40 | comment | added | Harper - Reinstate Monica | @AKG Combining "Protective earth & neutral" does the same thing to your dryer that it does to a British house. When the wire breaks, the dryer's chassis becomes energized. This kills people all the time, often kids who crawled behind the dryer to retrieve something. (At least, the dryer stops working in this state; a range continues to work!) Instead of running new 4-wire, you can also retrofit ground or use a GFCI breaker and wire it "GFCI Protected/No Equipment Ground". We've covered both these options in other Q&A. | |
| Mar 15, 2023 at 17:23 | comment | added | AKG | OK, your advice has always been sound so I won't do that. What are the safety risks of converting to a 3-prong? I can also probably get a 4-prong receptacle and run 4-wire back to the panel, but didn't want to go to all that work if I didn't have to. | |
| Mar 14, 2023 at 22:13 | comment | added | Harper - Reinstate Monica | @AKG no, that's terrible. That would be bootlegging ground to the socket. It's bad there for the same reason it's bad everywhere else. There is no ground. A 3-wire oven connection never had ground. Read the instructions for your range and it will have a procedure for replacing the 4-prong cord with 3-prong, if you want to take the safety risks associated with that. | |
| Mar 14, 2023 at 16:51 | comment | added | AKG | I have this exact situation - new range with 4-wire plug, old 3-wire outlet. Why can't I just replace the 3-wire outlet with a 4-wire outlet, tying the ground and neutral together to run on the single ground back to the panel? They land at the same place in the panel after all. I know it violates code, but what is the risk? I'd just like to know what the problem with doing this is. | |
| Jun 5, 2021 at 17:23 | comment | added | Ken | After getting into replacement of the service panel , there are 4 wires for both dryer and range.3 wires are connected on dryer, why I don't know. Will fix that. | |
| Jun 5, 2021 at 16:56 | vote | accept | Ken | ||
| Jun 1, 2021 at 3:19 | comment | added | Harper - Reinstate Monica | @NoSparksPleae good point, edited. And aluminum gets better: if it's not NM or UF, then you can get 50A out of #6Al. | |
| Jun 1, 2021 at 3:19 | history | edited | Harper - Reinstate Monica | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jun 1, 2021 at 2:21 | comment | added | NoSparksPlease | +1 For this answer, in addition I would exhort you to not leave a weak link in the infrastructure of your kitchen renovation. If you can't use an existing conduit route at least route new cable from the kitchen to the panel if you can. Even the Leviton $9 range receptacle on Amazon is listed for aluminum. 4-4-4-6 Al ser is currently $1.47/ft platt.com/platt-electric-supply/… | |
| May 31, 2021 at 20:08 | history | answered | Harper - Reinstate Monica | CC BY-SA 4.0 |